Al Nasser University, TRIPOLI — “When I grow up, I want to be just like you guys,” this increasingly flaccid middle-aged American visitor joked to his teenage to early 30’s Libyan interlocutors, as we parted last night and promised to meet again soon to continue our dialogue on our chosen subject of “What the hell is going on in Libya and why?”
Except I wasn’t entirely joking and I felt wistful as I reflected on our latest five-hour conversation that seemed like it had begun only 30 minutes earlier. Rather like one of those rare college classes during which the professor’s lecture and the classroom discussion were so interesting that you felt disappointed when the class ended
One thing most foreigners and the local population agree on in western Libya is that there were few signs in early February that eastern Libya would erupt as it did, and many are still unclear as to what and who caused it and why and how. But when half a dozen bright, energetic, nationalistic Libyan under- and post-graduate students agreed to a no-holds-barred discussion, it was a real joy to participate. Specific questions posed and opinions expressed by Libyan students in Tripoli and its suburbs, cannot be said to represent attitudes in the east of Libya, one third of the country still largely under rebel control. This, despite the Al Fatah student’s insistence that a majority of their friends, family and tribes from Benghazi and the East, even with that regions veneer of salafist and jihadist entrenched pockets, would largely agree with their views.
Eastern Libya has a long history of antipathy toward the Tripoli government from the days (1951) when the crumbling British Empire installed, with Italy’s agreement, Idriss Senussi as Monarch to look after its interests. The King of Libya, Idriss I, was overthrown by the Colonel Qaddafi-led Fatah Revolution in 1969. Today, one of the goals of some of the groups comprising the “National Transition Council” is the restoration of the Monarchy, promoted by the Senussi tribe. Students here in Tripoli report that some of their relatives and friends in the Senussi tribe based in Benghazi know that Al Qaeda elements will oppose a Monarchy even if they are currently mute and for now sticking to their CIA-supplied script on this subject of democracy and human rights for all including women.
Our “Libyan Forum 101” as we agreed to title it, asked the Libyan students to formulate and table for discussion key questions that they believe must be answered in order to understand and resolve what it called here, “Our crisis.”
The questions turned out to be the easy part and reflect widespread sentiment in the West of Libya, whether or not they resonate in Benghazi and its environs.
My young friend Hassan, an English literature student, quickly offered three tough questions for group discussion after apologizing for being late and explaining that security had increased on the streets of Tripoli following reports of rebel infiltrations and sabotage that Qaddafi had eluded to on TV the night before. Hassan repeated what we have heard from others, which was that there was some gunfire downtown and an Al Jazeera report of a bomb blast at the Sheraton Four Points Hotel under construction.
Ismail, a business student scoffed at the mention of Al Jazeera which, like the BBC and CNN, are widely thought to be highly biased if not actual rebel propagandists whose reports have sometimes been rife with. BBC’s website is blocked yet again from the Internet by the government here and the BBC Tripoli bureau just got their new replacement producer, Daniel Fisher, a pleasant fellow who introduced himself this morning, apparently mistaking me for Jack Nicolson. Daniel’s arrival follows Libyan government complaints and the departure of the BBC’s previous reporter who, following the one million plus pro-Qaddafi rally at Green Square on Friday, July 1, which lasted well into the evening, reported that those he saw leaving Tripoli the next morning were “fleeing Tripoli and that the Qaddafi stronghold could “implode at any time.”
That BBC report was total nonsense. Those families the BBC and CNN reporters claimed were “fleeing” were simply returning to the Tripoli suburbs whence they came having partied and slept over in the city.
Hassan tabled his questions: “Who appointed the Libyan Contact Group to get involved in our country and what legitimacy does its NATO memberships have to order the UN’s Secretary General (July 17) to impose conditions for resolving the crisis without both the Tripoli and Benghazi groups involved?
Does NATO, having set up the LCG, have the right to order around the UN Security Council and the UN Secretary-General and his staff?
Amani, who just got a job with Libyan Sports TV, tabled several questions for discussion:
“How can the US and NATO pretend to respect international law when NATO has killed more than 1,100 Libyan civilians claiming to be abiding by UN Resolutions 1970 & 1973, which NATO interprets as its sees fit and is using military operations to achieve political goals. UN Resolutions concerning our country limited NATO involvement to establishing a ‘no-fly zone’ which was achieved in two days. Did the UN authorize the additional four months of bombing or the expansion of the original mission to numerous assassination attempts on our leaders and massive infrastructure destruction?”
Amani added: “Also, why was there no effort to send a UN fact-finding mission to our country to really investigate the false sensationalist media and rebel reports coming from the rebels despite repeated Libyan, Arab and African calls for [them] to come and see and establish the facts.”
Sanaa, a nursing student asked: “Why Libya? We have had good relations with the US and Europe since 2003. It is well known that the CIA and Libya worked together a lot as recently as 2009-2010. Does the US only attack when a country has oil? Zimbabwe’s government has treated its people much worse than ours but there was no intervention. What about Bahrain, Yemen and Syria? Any civilians being threatened in those countries who need Obama’s humanitarian intervention?”
Nadia, a medical student tabled the question: “Can all the misinformation about what has happened to our country from the beginning of the third week of February be innocent accidents or poor reporting? For example, all those stories like the Viagra and alcohol-fueled rapes, the western media reports of our government’s mass slaughtering of civilians, Tripoli ready to implode on the top of our leaders, the claims that Colonel Qaddafi has no legitimacy or popular support, that there is chaos in the streets of Tripoli with the population being terrified, or that our leader is wounded and fled to Venezuela and on and on. Who created all these false reports and why?”
Imad, an engineering student asked: “Why did NATO bomb our civilian air traffic control tower last weekend, wounding more civilians? Even our airport director said the ATC system is 100 per cent civilian. So have IATA and some American officials.”
Hind, an IT student and volunteer with a women’s group asked: “Do the Americans and NATO expect a post Qaddafi Libya will please them more if they succeed in outing our leader? Do they have any idea how much anger their aggression has created among our people? They are making our leader into a very popular personality not just in Libya and Africa with people everywhere who oppose US wars and its attempted hegemony. Can the US and NATO ever hope to bring about reconciliation? Will the next government be all that much better?”
These students’ questions remain unanswered and indeed the questions here are becoming more frequent and intense.
Students at Al Nasser University and their countrymen are demanding answers from the White House, NATO and even from the distrusted western media housed in Tripoli’s Rexis Hotel. To date none of the above has been able to provide coherent answers.
I am sure that the answers can be found in what is already well known, the main fact being that NATO countries including America are in so much debt that they are about to be taken over by lenders who have no intention of allowing these debts to be forgotten.
The shameless and merciless attacks on Libya are therefore desperate attempts to pay these debts with Libyan oil.
The exploitation of divisions already there since the foundations of the state is nothing more than a cynical attempt to get others to do the dirty-work which obviously has not worked.
Good on Franklin for being objective in his reporting.
It is good also to see that many in my own land are now waking to the lies that mainstream promote.
Facebook is a godsend and is a useful tool to counter the war being waged against Libya by the Crusader nations.
Many people are seeing that this war is not HUMANITARIAN and is fully about oil and the fragmenting of Libyan peoples.
We see on Google Earth where it shows large sections of man made oasis of what looks to be gardens and orchards.
We read of all the benefits Libyans had with Jamahiriya
such as free or almost free
health care,
housing,
education
and other benefits.
In my considered opinion, it takes a fairly coheant scociety to achieve such things.
Such things I might add, that many nations in the West don’t have anymore.
So for thinking awake people, the rantings of Hillary, Obama, NATO cannot be viewed as truthful or credible.
This is very scary stuff, because it means that any of us any where in the world could be victims next after this Meglamaniac lot above finish with Libya.
Stephen Olof Wikblom…Sheep Shearer…Australia
The song Lyrics in this comment are that of the song Peace Train that was written by Cat Stevens who converted to Islam in 1977, and changed his name to Yusuf Islam.
I was wondering if Yusuf Islam wrote, or could write an Arabic translation of this song for the Libyan People.
I am sure there are many People who are hoping for better times for Libya, and the Libyan People.
Peace Train Lyrics, by Cat Stevens
Now I’ve been happy lately,
Thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be,
Something good has begun
Oh I’ve been smiling lately,
Dreaming about the world as one
And I believe it could be,
Some day it’s going to come
Cause out on the edge of darkness,
There rides a peace train
Oh peace train take this country,
Come take me home again
Now I’ve been smiling lately,
Thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be,
Something good has begun
Oh peace train sounding louder
Glide on the peace train
Come on now peace train
Yes, peace train Holy Roller
Everyone jump upon the peace train
Come on now peace train
Get your bags together,
Go bring your good friends too
Cause it’s getting nearer,
It soon will be with you
Now come and join the living,
It’s not so far from you
And it’s getting nearer,
Soon it will all be true
Now I’ve been crying lately,
Thinking about the world as it is
Why must we go on hating?
Why can’t we live in bliss?
Cause out on the edge of darkness,
There rides a peace train
Oh peace train take this country,
Come take me home again.
I would not surprise me that the Trillions of Dollars that it is costing the American Taxpayers, are being used to Corrupt, Bribe, Puppetize the European Politicians.
I think that a good Documentary Europe wide on Albanians would be needed, and Serbia should default on all IMF and World Bank Loans to pay Russia for lost Gas Revenue, and Libya should pay Russia to switch off the gas to Europe until the Europeans learn of the Genocide of NATO against the Libyan People.
The Video saying that the American Government is stealing from Americans is Titled: Gerald Celente on Freedom Watch Judge Napolitano 9th Feb 2011 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKMJf1pfK1U .
What People need to understand is that the English are a Fierce Race of People, and their Policy is that if they cannot Rule a place, then they will Ruin it, and their Colony of America and their Partner in Crime France have the same attitudes they leaned from the English.
They will not have this Fierceness with yelling and screaming and frothing at the mouth like Hitler did, but their Fierceness is conducted by with a kind face and nice words.
This apparent kind face and nice words never deters them; neither should it fool us, and we see this in expressed with their latest victim of causing imminence sufferings to the Libyan People.
A person would have to be a hardened despicable liar, or a total idiot, if they said that the Official History of the Soviet Union as told by Stalin was correct in every aspect.
This is obvious to all of us, and so we should all make our Historical Revisionism of the Soviet Union, and European History.
Britain and America would use more than likely use a third Party to undermine confidence in the Proven Fact that Joseph Stalin was a Puppet of Brittan and America.
Britain and America have had decades to tell the World that they threatened to kill Joseph Stalin if he did not Occupy European Countries, in order to preserve Anglo-American Hegemony.
That fact alone proves to us that they are not keen; to put it mildly with any attempts to tell the truth.
What this means is Britain and America will act cunningly, and they will use Russian Sources as their Secret Agents for attempting to discredit any Historical Revisionism for the Soviet Union.
There are two choices for Britain and America, and they are the Bribing of Puppets, or to use those with a vested interest in keeping the Old Myths of the Soviet Union, as the Official European History.
Puppets cannot bring themselves to tell the truth, and the non-Puppet Secret Deal Making Conspirators cannot bring themselves to tell others of their Corruption.
These facts of human behaviour are what enables Anglo-America to spread lies, and to spread lies with Confidence.
As regards those who are Bribed to follow a Anglo-American Script, it is possibly the best method, because there is less possibility for double dealing and intrigue.
The Communists in Russia who hope to one day take power in Russia, like to be rich like the Old Soviet Leaders were, and they want Power in order to Serve their Community, or so they say.
These Communists already live comfortably enough, and while Britain and America would Bribe them to ensure their added commitment; Britain and America already know that they have their vested interests, because they need the Votes of the Elderly Russian Voters to win an Election.
These Communists will want the Expertise and Election Funding of Britain and America that only Britain and America can supply, in order to help the Communists win the next Election in Russia.
I will give my Historical Revisionism starting at the next sentence, and I think that Unbiased Academics should write a short paperback book on the subject, and make a brief Documentary in English, and in all Continental European Languages.
For the sake of minimizing ambiguity, and for maximizing clarity, I use the terms Soviet Union 1 or SU 1 for the Soviet Union before WW 2, and Soviet Union 2, or SU 2 for the Soviet Union after Germany surrendered.
I also use the more generic term Soviet Union in this comment for the time that Mikhail Gorbachev was President of the Soviet Union, because the Soviet Union 2 was in a time of transition.
I do not minimize or ignore the oppression that was associated with occupation, because oppression at home and in other countries is an unavoidable consequence of occupation.
Even America with its lies of pure motives, has not been able to have a lovely occupation as Wikileaks has shown us, and common sense should tell us.
Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Serbian Province of Kosovo are some Perfect Examples that even the ‘Purity’ of American Occupation is not pretty.
Soviet Union 1 is smaller in land mass, because Soviet Union 2 includes several countries of Eastern Europe and includes the Baltic States.
For the sake of convenience, I refer to the Baltic States and Eastern Europe collectively as Eastern Europe.
This vital clarification method is employed in order assist Scholars and Historians grasp True Historical Facts.
All Scholars and Historians realize that we should only believe approximately 50% of what we see, hear, or read in any year.
We must not blame Joseph Stalin to the same extent as we must blame Britain and America for the need of Soviet Union 1 to occupy Eastern Europe, and then become Soviet Union 2.
The British Empire and America could have easily won the War in Europe in by 1942, and done this without allowing the Soviet Union 1 to annex any Eastern European Countries.
The British Empire and America convinced Joseph Stalin and other High Officials of SU 1 that it was good for their HEALTH to occupy and rule Eastern Europe.
Otherwise, the Soviet Union would be occupied by Anglo-America and Eastern Europe and the HEALTH of Soviet Leaders would become a matter of discussion.
The Soviet leaders knew it to be a rare but vital truth from Anglo-America, and they knew that they had no choice other than to be a Puppet to Britain and America as far as reluctantly occupying Eastern Europe was concerned.
The Tehran Conference was the first of three meetings between the leaders of the Soviet Union 1, The British Empire, and America, and was held between November 28 and December 1, 1943, most of which was held at the Soviet Embassy in Tehran, Iran.
Britain and America did not want to make all of Europe Democratic, Prosperous, and Free, because it would be a rival and a threat to their Global Hegemony.
The leaders of the Soviet Union 1 and the Soviet Union 2 knew that Britain and America would always put their own interests first, and that Soviet leaders had to look after the interests of their Country.
Britain and America kept the Europeans fighting hard against each other in order to weaken Europe and strengthen Anglo-America in comparison to Continental Europe.
Anglo-America did this by dividing and Puppetizing Western Europe in order to Directly Rule Western Europe, and effectively ‘rule’ Eastern Europe to poverty and insignificance for their Evil Goal of maintaining their Global Hegemony.
Britain and America made a ‘deal’ with the Soviet Union saying that they would not expand NATO if the Soviet Union withdrew from Eastern Europe.
Joseph Stalin and other High Officials of SU 1 were told in no uncertain terms that if they did not occupy Eastern Europe, then Anglo-America and the rest of Continental Europe would invade and occupy Soviet Union 1.
The Soviet leaders were made an offer by Anglo-America they simply could not refuse, and History should make a note of that Fact, along with the Other Facts in this comment.
Britain and America created NATO in 1949 not to prevent the Soviet Union 2 from taking more of Europe, but Soviet Union 2 was told again that if it did not continue to occupy Eastern Europe, then Eastern Europe would join NATO against Soviet Union 2.
Anglo-America and the Russians both knew that SU 1 and SU 2 had to occupy lands of their fellow Slavs, or be conquered and occupied by the West.
The Soviet leaders had no choice in implementing this policy that was designed to cause disunity among the Slavic Peoples, until Michael Gorbachev became President of the Soviet Union 2.
President Mikhail Gorbachev was a completely new and different post World War 2 Soviet Leader who would not be Anglo-America’s Puppet under any circumstances.
President Mikhail Gorbachev had the policy of Fairness, Justice, and Equity toward the People of the Baltic States and Eastern Europe.
Anglo-America was naturally extremely furious that the Soviet Union rejected the policies of occupying Eastern Europe, and was preparing to leave Eastern Europe.
Britain and America did love a divided Europe where they could be the Puppet Master, and call others an Evil Empire; while they were the Britain and America were the ones who engineered the occupation of Eastern Europe.
Britain and America told Western Europe that if they did not like it, then they would get there Puppet, Soviet Union 2 to conquer and occupy Western Europe.
Of course, Britain and America could not, and would not publicly express their anger, and so they had to pretend to be the friend of Soviet Union while plotting its demise.
The Soviet Union would have wanted Anglo-America to keep their part of the ‘deal’ to Not expand NATO, but the Soviet Union was determined to pursue the Policy of Fairness, Justice, and Equity toward Eastern Europe regardless of what Britain and America were scheming.
We see how the West was really planning the encirclement of Russia, regardless of the lies Zionist Controlled America spoke.
The occupation of Eastern Europe was expensive, and it kept Eastern Europe poor, and it kept the Soviet Union from attaining its economic potential.
The leaders of Soviet Union starting with Joseph Stalin and including Mikhail Gorbachev could not bring themselves to tell anyone of Russian Puppetship to Anglo-America.
The Russian Government will not confess to these things, because of the obvious reasons.
This is because the History of the Soviet Union needs to be portrayed as Heroic and Glorious, because of many of the elderly Voters in Russia.
That last reason is very a very compelling and honest reason, but even if Pride was not the issue, there could be People who think that Russia is not intelligent enough to admit to the past, which is irrelevant today.
Even today, all these things are a Carefully Guarded Russian Secret; however, these things can be reasoned on, and the Truth is known to Many People.
The following is a more accurate description of what the Evil English, Evil French, and Evil Americans are, and id how I would have wanted to write it the first time.
What People need to understand is that the English are a Very Fierce Race of People, and their Policy is that if they cannot Rule a place, then they will Ruin it, and their Colony of America and their Partner in Crime France have the same attitudes they leaned from the English.
They will not Display this Fierceness with yelling and screaming and frothing at the mouth like Hitler’s Fierceness was Displayed, but their Fierce Viciousness is conducted by with an apparent kind face, and nice words, and with the occasional Cunning Gentle Tones at times.
This apparent kind face and nice words never deters them; neither should it fool us, and we see this in expressed with their latest victim of causing imminence sufferings to the Libyan People.
This Evil Fierce Viciousness of the English, the French, and the America has and continues to be Displayed with Serbia and its Province of Kosovo.
The European and even Global Economy can be turned around very quickly if Russia were to say that at 50% of the Euro-American Politicians have Voluntarily been Filmed in Acts of Bestially and Paedophilia to be allowed to become Politicians and to be made rich by the Banksters at the expense of their People.
These 50% of Euro-America Politicians are higher up in the Power Structures, and some are in Leadership positions, with Serbia being a Perfect Example.
We know that England, France, and America will always find Puppets that will betray their own People and who are willing to be Filmed in Acts of Bestiality and Paedophilia in order to become Rich Puppets of European and America Politicians.
Russia needs to be patient and to just keep repeating these Truths over and over and over, because an improved European Economy will mean greater gas Sales to Europe and we know that Elections are coming up in Russia.
Russia needs to confess to the past that is was a Puppet of Anglo-America, and I have already written a comment on that, although Pride may prevent them from doing it.
The United Nations Security Council Resolution says that All Necessary Steps are to be taken to Protect All Libyans.
That statement seems to imply great flexibility, and if Russia and China were not going to fulfil their responsibility, then they should leave the United Nations Organization, because that Resolution applies to them to Protect All Libyans.
Russia and China will never have a better opportunity to make a proper dent on Anglo-America than now; and now is the best time to act.
The following is how Russia could fulfil its obligation to protect Libyan Civilians, because Russia needs to decide if they want to be a Member of the United Nations Organization.
The gas should be switched for two days, so that the European Union Citizens can understand that they need to enrol in the Online European Lottery on Kosovo and Libya.
Serbia will pay for any revenue lost by Defaulting on all IMF and World Bank Loans, and borrowing any Money they need from other Sources.
Free European Online Lotteries on Kosovo, and on Libya, with Russia switching off the gas to Europe, until most Europeans are enrolled on the Online European Lottery, and those who are enrolled must maintain membership and pay to keep the gas flowing.
They must pay one Euro each a day for the gas to keeping flowing, and this could even be 60 Million Euros a day to be given all to Russia for upholding International Law.
China to recall all the Loans from America, or at least they should not lend America any more money.
Some other measures could take place two weeks before the American Election, to make the current Administration that desperately wants to be re-elected before anything for America, and they will make more concessions to Russia and China without delay.
One Global Implication created by the Kosovo Precedent is that Many Politicians in Many Countries are Traitors To Their Own People, And To Their Neighbours, And That They Take Corrupt Bribes.
Other Global Implications created by the Kosovo Precedent are that immigration is a Big Mistake, and That Different Races Cannot, And Therefore Should Not Live Together In The Same Country.
To counter the Global Implications created by the Kosovo Precedent, there are many people who think that there should be no new countries created by breaking up existing Countries, but that Countries should join up with other Countries.
Different videos will be played, and if collectively the 60 million European Union Citizens do Not answer at least 50% of the simple questions, then the Gas gets switched off for two days, to help People concentrate on the Education Material that has been so kindly provided for them.
If too many do Not answer the questions sufficiently, then the gas gets switched off until a Billion Euros is paid by the EU, and then the entire Lottery begins afresh.
An example of the short Documentary video film is giving at History of Kosovo video clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-_QHbUGW6Y.
Other examples of the short video films are giving at NATO’s Illegal War Against Serbia/ Lies About Kosovo War1/1 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FN33NTMpLU and NATO’s Illegal War Against Serbia/ Lies About Kosovo War 2/2 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf84gioy8hU .
Get a Committee to look at how best to do it, but since it wrote these things last year, the method should have already been Perfected.
Be Certain with a 300% certainly that Anglo-America probably perfected the method no longer than one month after they read what I wrote on the matter last year.
At times, it is a matter of he who dares wins; and unless the Political Paedophile Puppetship is made known to the Continental European People, Russia and China are wasting their time with hope and change.
This is because they have above average Intelligence, but more importantly they look after their own interests and they have wealthy Think Tanks.
The Kosovo Albanians will be told to Accept a live and let live Autonomy that is not Negotiated but imposed on them by Belgrade.
The Kosovo Albanians should be given their last chance to make it look like they Negotiated a live and let live Autonomy as Serbian Citizens, or Serbia should Default on all IMF and World Bank Loans.
It would be best Russia and China to knock Anglo-America down a peg or two while they are limping, because they will do the same to you if they could.
Continental Europe needs to know that America is a danger to Europe, and that they need to leave Continental Europe as soon as possible.
It should be clearly understood that Anglo-America wants to continue to implement their Mafia Protection Racket for Continental Europe, and that this will have dire consequences for Continental Europe.
Russia has a proposal for a new European Security Agreement that should replace outdated institutions such as NATO and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
The Most Important sentence of all the Important sentences of that comment is: At times, it is a matter of he who dares wins; and unless the Plutocratic Banskter Euro-American Political Paedophile Puppetship Nature is made known to the Continental European People, Russia and China are Truly Wasting their time with hope and change.
These students ask such intelligent questions. I cannot imagine university students in the US asking such pointed and well informed questions.
Gaddafi was non-compliant when Uncle Sam demanded to include Libya in his grand plan for world domination by placing USAFRICOM Hq in Libya.
It was considered necessary to remove the Leader Gaddafi to replace him with a compliant alternative. All other reasons for the war against Libya are related to this reality.
It boggles the mind when one reflects on the continued lack of understanding of history and cultural realities of US planners at the State Department. Clinton’s demand that the nations of Africa kick out the Libyan Diplomatic corp from their nations was an insult that will never be forgotten.
Uncle Sam has a lot of blood on his hands and no matter how much he washes, they continue to drip from throughout the Middle East and North Africa. Does he really think that no one is noticing his trail of blood?
I can only hope that this illogical, illegal and immoral war against Libya will be a wake up call to other African Nations and the world not to trust US intentions.
I can only hope that the majority of nations throughout the world will evict Uncle Sam from his 1,000 plus military bases. Only then can the US troops return home for retraining to rebuild America’s decaying society and infrastructure.
A US Army Veteran