A proper understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict requires exposing numerous myths about its origins and the reasons it persists.
Myth #1 – Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict in the region.
Although Arabs were a majority in Palestine prior to the creation of the state of Israel, there had always been a Jewish population, as well. For the most part, Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors. This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement, because the Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination and wanted Palestine for their own, to create a “Jewish State” in a region where Arabs were the majority and owned most of the land.
For instance, after a series of riots in Jaffa in 1921 resulting in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs, the occupying British held a commission of inquiry, which reported their finding that “there is no inherent anti-Semitism in the country, racial or religious.” Rather, Arab attacks on Jewish communities were the result of Arab fears about the stated goal of the Zionists to take over the land.
After major violence again erupted in 1929, the British Shaw Commission report noted that “In less than 10 years three serious attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews. For 80 years before the first of these attacks there is no recorded instance of any similar incidents.” Representatives from all sides of the emerging conflict testified to the commission that prior to the First World War, “the Jews and Arabs lived side by side if not in amity, at least with tolerance, a quality which today is almost unknown in Palestine.” The problem was that “The Arab people of Palestine are today united in their demand for representative government”, but were being denied that right by the Zionists and their British benefactors.
The British Hope-Simpson report of 1930 similarly noted that Jewish residents of non-Zionist communities in Palestine enjoyed friendship with their Arab neighbors. “It is quite a common sight to see an Arab sitting in the verandah of a Jewish house”, the report noted. “The position is entirely different in the Zionist colonies.”
Myth #2 – The United Nations created Israel.
The U.N. became involved when the British sought to wash its hands of the volatile situation its policies had helped to create, and to extricate itself from Palestine. To that end, they requested that the U.N. take up the matter.
As a result, a U.N. Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) was created to examine the issue and offer its recommendation on how to resolve the conflict. UNSCOP contained no representatives from any Arab country and in the end issued a report that explicitly rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination. Rejecting the democratic solution to the conflict, UNSCOP instead proposed that Palestine be partitioned into two states: one Arab and one Jewish.
The U.N. General Assembly endorsed UNSCOP’s in its Resolution 181. It is often claimed that this resolution “partitioned” Palestine, or that it provided Zionist leaders with a legal mandate for their subsequent declaration of the existence of the state of Israel, or some other similar variation on the theme. All such claims are absolutely false.
Resolution 181 merely endorsed UNSCOP’s report and conclusions as a recommendation. Needless to say, for Palestine to have been officially partitioned, this recommendation would have had to have been accepted by both Jews and Arabs, which it was not.
Moreover, General Assembly resolutions are not considered legally binding (only Security Council resolutions are). And, furthermore, the U.N. would have had no authority to take land from one people and hand it over to another, and any such resolution seeking to so partition Palestine would have been null and void, anyway.
Myth #3 – The Arabs missed an opportunity to have their own state in 1947.
The U.N. recommendation to partition Palestine was rejected by the Arabs. Many commentators today point to this rejection as constituting a missed “opportunity” for the Arabs to have had their own state. But characterizing this as an “opportunity” for the Arabs is patently ridiculous. The Partition plan was in no way, shape, or form an “opportunity” for the Arabs.
First of all, as already noted, Arabs were a large majority in Palestine at the time, with Jews making up about a third of the population by then, due to massive immigration of Jews from Europe (in 1922, by contrast, a British census showed that Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population).
Additionally, land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal. For political commentators today to describe the Arabs’ refusal to accept a recommendation that their land be taken away from them, premised upon the explicit rejection of their right to self-determination, as a “missed opportunity” represents either an astounding ignorance of the roots of the conflict or an unwillingness to look honestly at its history.
It should also be noted that the partition plan was also rejected by many Zionist leaders. Among those who supported the idea, which included David Ben-Gurion, their reasoning was that this would be a pragmatic step towards their goal of acquiring the whole of Palestine for a “Jewish State” – something which could be finally accomplished later through force of arms.
When the idea of partition was first raised years earlier, for instance, Ben-Gurion had written that “after we become a strong force, as the result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine”. Partition should be accepted, he argued, “to prepare the ground for our expansion into the whole of Palestine”. The Jewish State would then “have to preserve order”, if the Arabs would not acquiesce, “by machine guns, if necessary.”
Myth #4 – Israel has a “right to exist”.
The fact that this term is used exclusively with regard to Israel is instructive as to its legitimacy, as is the fact that the demand is placed upon Palestinians to recognize Israel’s “right to exist”, while no similar demand is placed upon Israelis to recognize the “right to exist” of a Palestinian state.
Nations don’t have rights, people do. The proper framework for discussion is within that of the right of all peoples to self-determination. Seen in this, the proper framework, it is an elementary observation that it is not the Arabs which have denied Jews that right, but the Jews which have denied that right to the Arabs. The terminology of Israel’s “right to exist” is constantly employed to obfuscate that fact.
As already noted, Israel was not created by the U.N., but came into being on May 14, 1948, when the Zionist leadership unilaterally, and with no legal authority, declared Israel’s existence, with no specification as to the extent of the new state’s borders. In a moment, the Zionists had declared that Arabs no longer the owners of their land – it now belonged to the Jews. In an instant, the Zionists had declared that the majority Arabs of Palestine were now second-class citizens in the new “Jewish State”.
The Arabs, needless to say, did not passively accept this development, and neighboring Arab countries declared war on the Zionist regime in order to prevent such a grave injustice against the majority inhabitants of Palestine.
It must be emphasized that the Zionists had no right to most of the land they declared as part of Israel, while the Arabs did. This war, therefore, was not, as is commonly asserted in mainstream commentary, an act of aggression by the Arab states against Israel. Rather, the Arabs were acting in defense of their rights, to prevent the Zionists from illegally and unjustly taking over Arab lands and otherwise disenfranchising the Arab population. The act of aggression was the Zionist leadership’s unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel, and the Zionists’ use of violence to enforce their aims both prior to and subsequent to that declaration.
In the course of the war that ensued, Israel implemented a policy of ethnic cleansing. 700,000 Arab Palestinians were either forced from their homes or fled out of fear of further massacres, such as had occurred in the village of Deir Yassin shortly before the Zionist declaration. These Palestinians have never been allowed to return to their homes and land, despite it being internationally recognized and encoded in international law that such refugees have an inherent “right of return”.
Palestinians will never agree to the demand made of them by Israel and its main benefactor, the U.S., to recognize Israel’s “right to exist”. To do so is effectively to claim that Israel had a “right” to take Arab land, while Arabs had no right to their own land. It is effectively to claim that Israel had a “right” to ethnically cleanse Palestine, while Arabs had no right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in their own homes, on their own land.
The constant use of the term “right to exist” in discourse today serves one specific purpose: It is designed to obfuscate the reality that it is the Jews that have denied the Arab right to self-determination, and not vice versa, and to otherwise attempt to legitimize Israeli crimes against the Palestinians, both historical and contemporary.
Myth #5 – The Arab nations threatened Israel with annihilation in 1967 and 1973
The fact of the matter is that it was Israel that fired the first shot of the “Six Day War”. Early on the morning of June 5, Israel launched fighters in a surprise attack on Egypt (then the United Arab Republic), and successfully decimated the Egyptian air force while most of its planes were still on the ground.
It is virtually obligatory for this attack to be described by commentators today as “preemptive”. But to have been “preemptive”, by definition, there must have been an imminent threat of Egyptian aggression against Israel. Yet there was none.
It is commonly claimed that President Nasser’s bellicose rhetoric, blockade of the Straits of Tiran, movement of troops into the Sinai Peninsula, and expulsion of U.N. peacekeeping forces from its side of the border collectively constituted such an imminent threat.
Yet, both U.S. and Israeli intelligence assessed at the time that the likelihood Nasser would actually attack was low. The CIA assessed that Israel had overwhelming superiority in force of arms, and would, in the event of a war, defeat the Arab forces within two weeks; within a week if Israel attacked first, which is what actually occurred.
It must be kept in mind that Egypt had been the victim of aggression by the British, French, and Israelis in the 1956 “Suez Crisis”, following Egypt’s nationalization of the Suez Canal. In that war, the three aggressor nations conspired to wage war upon Egypt, which resulted in an Israeli occupation of the Sinai Peninsula. Under U.S. pressure, Israel withdrew from the Sinai in 1957, but Egypt had not forgotten the Israeli aggression.
Moreover, Egypt had formed a loose alliance with Syria and Jordan, with each pledging to come to the aid of the others in the event of a war with Israel. Jordan had criticized Nasser for not living up to that pledge after the Israeli attack on West Bank village of Samu the year before, and his rhetoric was a transparent attempt to regain face in the Arab world.
That Nasser’s positioning was defensive, rather than projecting an intention to wage an offensive against Israel, was well recognized among prominent Israelis. As Avraham Sela of the Shalem Center has observed, “The Egyptian buildup in Sinai lacked a clear offensive plan, and Nasser’s defensive instructions explicitly assumed an Israeli first strike.”
Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin acknowledged that “In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”
Yitzhak Rabin, who would also later become Prime Minister of Israel, admitted in 1968 that “I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.”
Israelis have also acknowledged that their own rhetoric at the time about the “threat” of “annihilation” from the Arab states was pure propaganda.
General Chaim Herzog, commanding general and first military governor of the occupied West Bank following the war, admitted that “There was no danger of annihilation. Israeli headquarters never believed in this danger.”
General Ezer Weizman similarly said, “There was never a danger of extermination. This hypothesis had never been considered in any serious meeting.”
Chief of Staff Haim Bar-Lev acknowledged, “We were not threatened with genocide on the eve of the Six-Day War, and we had never thought of such possibility.”
Israeli Minister of Housing Mordechai Bentov has also acknowledged that “The entire story of the danger of extermination was invented in every detail, and exaggerated a posteriori to justify the annexation of new Arab territory.”
In 1973, in what Israelis call the “Yom Kippur War”, Egypt and Syria launched a surprise offensive to retake the Sinai and the Golan Heights, respectively. This joint action is popularly described in contemporaneous accounts as an “invasion” of or act of “aggression” against Israel.
Yet, as already noted, following the June ’67 war, the U.N. Security Council passed resolution 242 calling upon Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories. Israel, needless to say, refused to do so and has remained in perpetual violation of international law ever since.
During the 1973 war, Egypt and Syria thus “invaded” their own territory, then under illegal occupation by Israel. The corollary of the description of this war as an act of Arab aggression implicitly assumes that the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, West Bank, and Gaza Strip were Israeli territory. This is, needless to say, a grossly false assumption that demonstrates the absolutely prejudicial and biased nature of mainstream commentary when it comes to the Israeli-Arab conflict.
This false narrative fits in with the larger overall narrative, equally fallacious, of Israeli as the “victim” of Arab intransigence and aggression. This narrative, largely unquestioned in the West, flips reality on its head.
Myth #6 – U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 called only for a partial Israeli withdrawal.
Resolution 242 was passed in the wake of the June ’67 war and called for the “Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict.” While the above argument enjoys widespread popularity, it has no merit whatsoever.
The central thesis of this argument is that the absence of the word “the” before “occupied territories” in that clause means not “all of the occupied territories” were intended. Essentially, this argument rests upon the ridiculous logic that because the word “the” was omitted from the clause, we may therefore understand this to mean that “some of the occupied territories” was the intended meaning.
Grammatically, the absence of the word “the” has no effect on the meaning of this clause, which refers to “territories”, plural. A simple litmus test question is: Is it territory that was occupied by Israel in the ’67 war? If yes, then, under international law and Resolution 242, Israel is required to withdraw from that territory. Such territories include the Syrian Golan Heights, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
The French version of the resolution, equally authentic as the English, contains the definite article, and a majority of the members of the Security Council made clear during deliberations that their understanding of the resolution was that it would require Israel to fully withdraw from all occupied territories.
Additionally, it is impossible to reconcile with the principle of international law cited in the preamble to the resolution, of “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war”. To say that the U.N. intended that Israel could retain some of the territory it occupied during the war would fly in the face of this cited principle.
One could go on to address various other logical fallacies associated with this frivolous argument, but as it is absurd on its face, it would be superfluous to do so.
Myth #7 – Israeli military action against its neighbors is only taken to defend itself against terrorism.
The facts tell another story. Take, for instance, the devastating 1982 Israeli war on Lebanon. As political analyst Noam Chomsky extensively documents in his epic analysis “The Fateful Triangle”, this military offensive was carried out with barely even the thinnest veil of a pretext.
While one may read contemporary accounts insisting this war was fought in response to a constant shelling of northern Israeli by the PLO, then based in Lebanon, the truth is that, despite continuous Israeli provocations, the PLO had with only a few exceptions abided by a cease-fire that had been in place. Moreover, in each of those instances, it was Israel that had first violated the cease-fire.
Among the Israeli provocations, throughout early 1982, it attacked and sank Lebanese fishing boats and otherwise committed hundreds of violations of Lebanese territorial waters. It committed thousands of violations of Lebanese airspace, yet never did manage to provoke the PLO response it sought to serve as the casus belli for the planned invasion of Lebanon.
On May 9, Israel bombed Lebanon, an act that was finally met with a PLO response when it launched rocket and artillery fire into Israel.
Then a terrorist group headed by Abu Nidal attempted to assassinate Israeli Ambassador Shlomo Argov in London. Although the PLO itself had been at war with Abu Nidal, who had been condemned to death by a Fatah military tribunal in 1973, and despite the fact that Abu Nidal was not based in Lebanon, Israel cited this event as a pretext to bomb the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, killing 200 Palestinians. The PLO responded by shelling settlements in northern Israel. Yet Israel did not manage to provoke the kind of larger-scale response it was looking to use as a casus belli for its planned invasion.
As Israeli scholar Yehoshua Porath has suggested, Israel’s decision to invade Lebanon, far from being a response to PLO attacks, rather “flowed from the very fact that the cease-fire had been observed”. Writing in the Israeli daily Haaretz, Porath assessed that “The government’s hope is that the stricken PLO, lacking a logistic and territorial base, will return to its earlier terrorism…. In this way, the PLO will lose part of the political legitimacy that it has gained … undercutting the danger that elements will develop among the Palestinians that might become a legitimate negotiating partner for future political accommodations.”
As another example, take Israel’s Operation Cast Lead from December 27, 2008 to January 18, 2009. Prior to Israel’s assault on the besieged and defenseless population of the Gaza Strip, Israel had entered into a cease-fire agreement with the governing authority there, Hamas. Contrary to popular myth, it was Israel, not Hamas, who ended the cease-fire.
The pretext for Operation Cast Lead is obligatorily described in Western media accounts as being the “thousands” of rockets that Hamas had been firing into Israel prior to the offensive, in violation of the cease-fire.
The truth is that from the start of the cease-fire in June until November 4, Hamas fired no rockets, despite numerous provocations from Israel, including stepped-up operations in the West Bank and Israeli soldiers taking pop-shots at Gazans across the border, resulting in several injuries and at least one death.
On November 4, it was again Israel who violated the cease-fire, with airstrikes and a ground invasion of Gaza that resulted in further deaths. Hamas finally responded with rocket fire, and from that point on the cease-fire was effectively over, with daily tit-for-tat attacks from both sides.
Despite Israel’s lack of good faith, Hamas offered to renew the cease-fire from the time it was set to officially expire in December. Israel rejected the offer, preferring instead to inflict violent collective punishment on the people of Gaza.
As the Israeli Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center noted, the truce “brought relative quiet to the western Negev population”, with 329 rocket and mortar attacks, “most of them during the month and a half after November 4”, when Israel had violated and effectively ended the truce. This stands in remarkable contrast to the 2,278 rocket and mortar attacks in the six months prior to the truce. Until November 4, the center also observed, “Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire.”
If Israel had desired to continue to mitigate the threat of Palestinian militant rocket attacks, it would have simply not ended the cease-fire, which was very highly effective in reducing the number of such attacks, including eliminating all such attacks by Hamas. It would not have instead resorted to violence, predictably resulting in a greatly escalated threat of retaliatory rocket and mortar attacks from Palestinian militant groups.
Moreover, even if Israel could claim that peaceful means had been exhausted and that a resort military force to act in self-defense to defend its civilian population was necessary, that is demonstrably not what occurred. Instead, Israel deliberately targeted the civilian population of Gaza with systematic and deliberate disproportionate and indiscriminate attacks on residential areas, hospitals, schools, and other locations with protected civilian status under international law.
As the respected international jurist who headed up the United Nations investigation into the assault, Richard Goldstone, has observed, the means by which Israel carried out Operation Cast Lead were not consistent with its stated aims, but was rather more indicative of a deliberate act of collective punishment of the civilian population.
Myth #8 – God gave the land to the Jews, so the Arabs are the occupiers.
No amount of discussion of the facts on the ground will ever convince many Jews and Christians that Israel could ever do wrong, because they view its actions as having the hand of God behind it, and that its policies are in fact the will of God. They believe that God gave the land of Palestine, including the West Bank and Gaza Strip, to the Jewish people, and therefore Israel has a “right” to take it by force from the Palestinians, who, in this view, are the wrongful occupiers of the land.
But one may simply turn to the pages of their own holy books to demonstrate the fallaciousness of this or similar beliefs. Christian Zionists are fond of quoting passages from the Bible such as the following to support their Zionist beliefs:
“And Yahweh said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: ‘Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are – northward, southward, eastward, and westward; for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever. And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants could also be numbered. Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you.” (Genesis 13:14-17)
“Then Yahweh appeared to him and said: ‘Do not go down to Egypt; live in the land of which I shall tell you. Dwell in the land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father.” (Genesis 26: 1-3)
“And behold, Yahweh stood above it and said: ‘I am Yahweh, God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.” (Genesis 28:13)
Yet Christian Zionists conveniently disregard other passages providing further context for understanding this covenant, such as the following:
“You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out.” (Leviticus 20:22)
“But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments … but break My covenant … I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it. I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste … You shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.” (Leviticus 26: 14, 15, 32-33, 28)
“Therefore Yahweh was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone…. So Israel was carried away from their own land to Assyria, as it is to this day.” (2 Kings 17:18, 23)
“And I said, after [Israel] had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.” (Jeremiah 3: 7-8)
Yes, in the Bible, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, told the Hebrews that the land could be theirs – if they would obey his commandments. Yet, as the Bible tells the story, the Hebrews were rebellious against Yahweh in all their generations.
What Jewish and Christian Zionists omit from their Biblical arguments in favor of continued Israel occupation is that Yahweh also told the Hebrews, including the tribe of Judah (from whom the “Jews” are descended), that he would remove them from the land if they broke the covenant by rebelling against his commandments, which is precisely what occurs in the Bible.
Thus, the theological argument for Zionism is not only bunk from a secular point of view, but is also a wholesale fabrication from a scriptural perspective, representing a continued rebelliousness against Yahweh and his Torah, and the teachings of Yeshua the Messiah (Jesus the Christ) in the New Testament.
Myth #9 – Palestinians reject the two-state solution because they want to destroy Israel.
In an enormous concession to Israel, Palestinians have long accepted the two-state solution. The elected representatives of the Palestinian people in Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) had since the 70s recognized the state of Israel and accepted the two-state solution to the conflict. Despite this, Western media continued through the 90s to report that the PLO rejected this solution and instead wanted to wipe Israel off the map.
The pattern has been repeated since Hamas was voted into power in the 2006 Palestinian elections. Although Hamas has for years accepted the reality of the state of Israel and demonstrated a willingness to accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip alongside Israel, it is virtually obligatory for Western mainstream media, even today, to report that Hamas rejects the two-state solution, that it instead seeks “to destroy Israel”.
In fact, in early 2004, shortly before he was assassinated by Israel, Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin said that Hamas could accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel. Hamas has since repeatedly reiterated its willingness to accept a two-state solution.
In early 2005, Hamas issued a document stating its goal of seeking a Palestinian state alongside Israel and recognizing the 1967 borders.
The exiled head of the political bureau of Hamas, Khalid Mish’al, wrote in the London Guardian in January 2006 that Hamas was “ready to make a just peace”. He wrote that “We shall never recognize the right of any power to rob us of our land and deny us our national rights…. But if you are willing to accept the principle of a long-term truce, we are prepared to negotiate the terms.”
During the campaigning for the 2006 elections, the top Hamas official in Gaza, Mahmoud al-Zahar said that Hamas was ready to “accept to establish our independent state on the area occupied [in] ’67”, a tacit recognition of the state of Israel.
The elected prime minister from Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, said in February 2006 that Hamas accepted “the establishment of a Palestinian state” within the “1967 borders”.
In April 2008, former U.S. President Jimmy Carter met with Hamas officials and afterward stated that Hamas “would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders” and would “accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbor next door in peace”. It was Hamas’ “ultimate goal to see Israel living in their allocated borders, the 1967 borders, and a contiguous, vital Palestinian state alongside.”
That same month Hamas leader Meshal said, “We have offered a truce if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, a truce of 10 years as a proof of recognition.”
In 2009, Meshal said that Hamas “has accepted a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders”.
Hamas’ shift in policy away from total rejection of the existence of the state of Israel towards acceptance of the international consensus on a two-state solution to the conflict is in no small part a reflection of the will of the Palestinian public. A public opinion survey from April of last year, for instance, found that three out of four Palestinians were willing to accept a two-state solution.
Myth #10 – The U.S. is an honest broker and has sought to bring about peace in the Middle East.
Rhetoric aside, the U.S. supports Israel’s policies, including its illegal occupation and other violations of international humanitarian law. It supports Israel’s criminal policies financially, militarily, and diplomatically.
The Obama administration, for example, stated publically that it was opposed to Israel’s settlement policy and ostensibly “pressured” Israel to freeze colonization activities. Yet very early on, the administration announced that it would not cut back financial or military aid to Israel, even if it defied international law and continued settlement construction. That message was perfectly well understood by the Netanyahu government in Israel, which continued its colonization policies.
To cite another straightforward example, both the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate passed resolutions openly declaring support for Israel’s Operation Cast Lead, despite a constant stream of reports evidencing Israeli war crimes.
On the day the U.S. Senate passed its resolution “reaffirming the United States’ strong support for Israel in its battle with Hamas” (January 8, 2009), the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) issued a statement demanding that Israel allow it to assist victims of the conflict because the Israeli military had blocked access to wounded Palestinians – a war crime under international law.
That same day, U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement condemning Israel for firing on a U.N. aid convoy delivering humanitarian supplies to Gaza and for the killing of two U.N. staff members – both further war crimes.
On the day that the House passed its own version of the resolution, the U.N. announced that it had had to stop humanitarian work in Gaza because of numerous incidents in which its staff, convoys, and installations, including clinics and schools, had come under Israeli attack.
U.S. financial support for Israel surpasses $3 billion annually. When Israel waged a war to punish the defenseless civilian population of Gaza, its pilots flew U.S.-made F-16 fighter-bombers and Apache helicopter gunships, dropping U.S.-made bombs, including the use of white phosphorus munitions in violation of international law.
U.S. diplomatic support for Israeli crimes includes its use of the veto power in the U.N. Security Council. When Israel was waging a devastating war against the civilian population and infrastructure of Lebanon in the summer of 2006, the U.S. vetoed a cease-fire resolution.
As Israel was waging Operation Cast Lead, the U.S. delayed the passage of a resolution calling for an end to the violence, and then abstained rather than criticize Israel once it finally allowed the resolution to be put to a vote.
When the U.N. Human Rights Council officially adopted the findings and recommendations of its investigation into war crimes during Operation Cast Lead, headed up by Richard Goldstone, the U.S. responded by announcing its intention to block any effort to have the Security Council similarly adopt its conclusions and recommendations. The U.S. Congress passed a resolution rejecting the Goldstone report because it found that Israel had committed war crimes.
Through its virtually unconditional support for Israel, the U.S. has effectively blocked any steps to implement the two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The so-called “peace process” has for many decades consisted of U.S. and Israeli rejection Palestinian self-determination and blocking of any viable Palestinian state.
More myths:
Hamas does not seek the destruction of Israel
Hezbollah does not seek the destruction of Israel
Rockets do not shower down on Israel lands
There were never suicide bombers trying to kill civilians in Israel
Arafat died of natural causes and his wife won billions in a lottery and now lives in Paris, enjoying those winnings.
It just seems that Israel, unlike other states, does not have a chance at the rotating chair of the Security Council. In actuality, the chair is uncomfortable so they have decided not to occupy it.
Arab states did not attack Israel in 1948 to destroy Israel…they wanted to help celebrate the new state that the UN, the US and Russia accepted as a legal state.
fred,
“Hamas does not seek the destruction of Israel”. I address that in the article. As for Hezbollah, it’s absurd to say it seeks the destruction of Israel. As for your “myths” numbers 3 and 4, I don’t know anyone who denies that there have been rocket and suicide bombings against Israel. I address your last one in the article, as well.
without the occupation there would be no hamas ? hezbollha protects lebanese sovereignty after repeated israeli attacks that have caused the deaths of thousands
Zionist trash as it really is!
Typical namecalling by a Muslim basher of Israel, lol.
NO to another Arab/Muslim terror state!
56 Islamic / 22 Arab coutries are enough
Stop the terror thugs and the Islamist colonial empire….
If you’re interested in stopping terrorism, direct your attention to one of the leading state purveyors of terrorism, Israel.
Israel…state purveyor of terrorism? You just lost all credibility. Israel does not use suicide bombers…does not train children up to hate anyone not of the jewish faith…does not dance in the streets when a terrorist pulls off a major attack…does not scream at the world for the end of a people…does not use children to kill…etc. ad nauseam. Please stop your hatred towards jews, and just admit that Israel exists. Whether or not you like it, it exists, and you cannot do anything about it. Shalom
Mr Hammond,
Do not waste your precious time and energy by trying to reason with the delusional Freds lapidesof the world.
He and his ilk are the type that makes my vomit want to vomit.
The Fred Lapides of the world are pure human filth and should be treated a s such.
Civilian
They know nothing but lies
“This war, therefore, was not, as is commonly asserted in mainstream commentary, an act of aggression by the Arab states against Israel.”
The map by Glubb, which I have posted at http://tweetextensions.com , shows that, with the exception of the Egyptian army, which crossed the Negev, the Arab forces did not enter the areas allocated to the Jewish state. Has anyone come up with any evidence that challenges Glubb’s assertion?
No land was “allocated” to the Jewish state, Alan. It’s a myth that the U.N. created Israel, as I note in the article. The land “allocated” to Israel was mostly owned by Arabs, so whether or not the Arab armies entered that land is a moot point, really. It’s correct, as far as I know, by irrelevant.
Correct! The UN did not creta Israel…they just recognized it as a state along with the U.S, and the U.S.S.R. That gave it credence. The recognition by those countries made it a country in the eyes of the world…but now that Israel refuses to give back land taken by force of arms the world views them as evil. I say that any religion that teaches their children to hate is evil. Shalom
Let me guess: you are of Arab descent and base your “facts” on your grandmothers fairytales?
Fact 1:
Arabs have been seeking to exterminate the Jewish community since 620 AD and will always seek to do so, irrespective of Israel.
Fact 2:
Britain drew the map for Israel in 1917. At the time the land was almost barren – apart from a decade later when a sudden influx of thousands of illegal Arab immigrants, pushed on the area deliberately from Egypt and Saudi Arabia, began to force their way in.
Fact 3:
The “Palestinian” people were actually created in 1935 for the purpose of Jihad. Created by Hitler’s ally, the Grand Mufti, who was the orchestrator of the holocaust which historic documents have now shown.
The “Palestinian” people are actually a terrorist creation. They have no desire or intention of peace. Not with Israel nor with anyone else.
Fact 4:
Because of the rapid volume of illegals pouring into transjordan/palestine the British divide Israel into two and called thesecond part Jordan – which was given to these invaders from Egypt and Saudi Arabia in hope that it would avert further conflicts. So they had plenty of land. Even twice more land than Israel itself. But they never wanted land. They had their own homeland to return to (and still hold passports from them). They wanted JIHAD. They are there for terrorism and nothing else.
Enough with the Muslim bullshit! Its everywhere around the world. The only thing these sick animals deserve is a bullet in their head. FCYK these Palestinian terrorist invaders! They deserve no sympathy from anyone.
I would merely observe that you didn’t manage to point out a single factual error in anything I wrote. You did, however, illustrate for us your bigotry, which is instructive.
He did the exact same thing as you; produce “facts” without any references. When you accuse him of bigotry you’re at the same time accusing yourself
I see that logic isn’t one of your strengths.
Now there is some fascism there. If you were an Arab and you said that comment, fine. But you’re not. So why doesn’t it matter if Arab Armies surrounding went to the Jewish Areas or if they went to the the Arab Areas?
Thank you Jeremy for your brilliant essay to to dismantle some Zionist myths and the falsification of what actually happened in history. However, the Zionist perversion of history will not stop.
But we know that Zionists and their friends have enormous resources to concoct more lies and churn more myths. If people like you come under attack, then we know why.
And the Arabs are all poor, illiterate peasants who cannot speak up for themselves?
An amazing myth-busting article that’s supposed to be dropped on all Zionist-sponsored lies spreading media. It’s a must read for everyone especially Arabs because they know so less about the history and are still in the bubble of supremacy and glory. Should be fed to apologists too who are too sorry to open their eyes and understand the facts that Zionist aggression is the reason behind all ills in the Middle East. Thanks so much for arming us with these handy facts Jeremy. Bravo!
To combat Zionists’ lies and obfuscations is no easy task because they produce them on large scale.
Mr Hammond has tried to give us a judicious explanation in face of heavy odds in the MSM.
Alan, there is no evidence to proof otherwise., the lies have been exposed.
Yet many israeli appeasers will continue on with their shameless lies.
Civilian
myth 11; the two state solution is viable- it is not- only a one state solution is viable and obtainable
myth12; peace will never be achieved in the middle east; it will for peace is…inevitable
myth 13; that Hanthala will never return home- he will when we grow up and become the people we should be which is caring, empathetic,tolerant,altruistic and ahimsatic
if you start with a premise; then the rest , as meaningful context is colored as such. It is always funny just from the stand point alone; that there has always been agression for food, water , land…”right to ones own happiness” whatever that means…whos happiness over the other, etc. It never ends, this is a perpetual schematic over all of history. What is striking is the way it is applied to the Jewish question……there are many arab countries and no jewish ones (prior to the nation of israel), because of the history of the jews/diaspora….to talk about a right to land etc, is to negate the essential impetus that started out as a way to survive/exist in the world….especially post WWll….on has to set aside any talk/acknowledgement of what the jews go had/is going through…
as if covert and overt prejudices just up and left; therefore we do not have to interpret political/latitudnal moves through such a narrow lense….really too much. One can always cherry pick events and interpret things in a said fashion, and still come off as truth…”truth” is a slippery thing, and is interpreted with each person’s bias…no matter how much one likes to think that they’re open to the “facts”…spurious as any comment can get.
Going foward; since Israel is a nation that does exist, i doubt that it is a plausible request to have the jews up and leave….so a 2 state solution is something that has to be worked out. what may that look like? that’s what we have to work on….and not with the rhetoric/denial that Hamas and extremists have israel’s needs taken to heart (give me a break….we need real talk/real solutions).
Israel is an illegal state supported by American tax payer, such support can only really survive for a short period, that is no in sight.
One thing people need to remember is this, Israel is formed illegally and is in the centre of nations who general population are totally hostile against them. As such, when tables will change Israel will need to pay for all the destruction is has caused in the region and around the world.
We are educated from day one (in school, college and Universities) that evil never succeeds and is held accountable one day, that day is long over due.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not against Jewish people or their religion for that matter, what I am against is oppression and terrorism, which today is know as Israel. There are some Jewish people/group who deny Israel and agree that it should not exist, but they are largely ignored or known as traitors and shunned by the pro-Israel media.
Israel life expectancy is less that 100 years, and this illegal empire is built on Palestinians blood, which one day they need to account for.
Israel has as much right to exist as you are my friend. You have no right to decide anyone’s rights.
No nation has a “right to exist”. This is an absurd and meaningless concept. The proper framework for discussion is the right to self-determination, which is denied to the Palestinians by Israel and not vice-versa.
Are you ever going to stop spreading your lies and propaganda? This facade of intellectualism that you try to wear isn’t fooling anyone. You’ve been consistently proven to be wrong on everything you’ve said.
What do you get put of advocating for terrorism?
How, in your mind, does pointing out that a state’s “right to exist” is a meaningless concept and that the proper framework is the right to self-determination equate to “advocating for terrorism”?
They have Jordan
Yes, we are all well aware that some people, like yourself, reject the right of self-determination for the Palestinians altogether.
I have deleted a number of your posts. Please do not paste entire articles without links. You are welcome to share links to articles to support your arguments, but please keep your comments relevant to the article.
Who has Jordan? Not the Palestinians. And why would they want Jordan? Palestine is their home. Are you suggesting Palestinians take over a different country and expell them as Israel did to Palestinians?
The fact is Jordan, Israel, Palestine and Syria and are the same country. With artificial borders.
The Doctrine of Self Determination gives Israel the Right to Exist. The people of Israel want Israel to exist. Therefore it should.
Hamas and the BDS movement and people like you are calling for it’s destruction and attempting to legitimise it. So you may not be denying it but you sure as fuck want to.
“Israel is an illegal state ” By your standards so is America.
You don’t believe Jewish Heritage has the right to exist in Palestine, right? I agree Anglos living in Oklahoma and Ohio and Arizona and Nebraska need to leave as well, you nazi lol
Top ten myths about Israel and the Middle East conflict
Myth #1: Jews have no historic connection to Israel/Palestine.
A key element of Arab and anti-Zionist attacks on Israel is the notion that the Jewish presence in the country is a remnant of 19th century imperialism in which Europeans colonized and exploited parts of the third world. But far from being outsiders there, the Jewish ties date back 4,000 years to the very beginning of Jewish history recounted in the Bible and verified by much of the evidence of archeology that has been discovered.
Though the Romans expelled most of the Jewish population from the country, Jewish settlement continued without interruption throughout the last 2,000 years. In all this time, the Land of Israel remained a constant in thoughts and the hearts of Jews throughout the world, as it was remembered in their daily prayers and in their dreams.
Myth #2: Jews have no unique claim to the ancient and holy city of Jerusalem.
Though both Christianity and Islam have holy sites in the city, the Jewish ties predate that of any other existing religion. King David made Jerusalem the capital of Israel 3,000 years ago — 1,700 years before Islam was even founded. Jerusalem never served as even a provincial capital during the centuries of Muslim rule. The entire city is sacred to Jews; only the Dome of the Rock has religious significance to Muslims. Moreover, in the modern era, Jews have been the majority of the population of the city since the 1840s.
As for freedom of worship, the only period during which all faiths have been free to worship in peace has been since 1967 when the city became unified under Israeli sovereignty.
Myth #3: The Zionist movement was never prepared to share the land.
From the very start of the Jewish return to their historic homeland in the late 19th century, it has never been the goal of the Zionist movement to uproot the Arab population or to create a state where only Jews could live. In 1922, the League of Nations’ Mandate for Palestine was partitioned by Britain, with the east bank of the Jordan River reserved for Arab rule (it eventually become the Kingdom of Jordan), and the area between the Mediterranean and the Jordan being designated as the Jewish National Home. Dating back to the 1930s, every subsequent peace plan that has been proposed involved some sort of partition of the Western portion of Palestine. Though all of these schemes involved painful concessions for the Jews, the leadership of the Zionist movement and subsequently the Jewish state always accepted this principle of sharing the country.
Myth #4: The lack of an independent Palestinian Arab state is the fault of the Zionists.
In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of Palestine between a Jewish state and an Arab state. The response of the Palestinian Arabs, as well as the rest of the Arab and Muslim world, was a categorical rejection of any scheme that allowed a Jewish state on any part of the land, no matter what its borders might be. No effort was made to set up an independent Arab state in the part of Palestine allotted for that purpose. In the aftermath of Israel’s War of Independence, in which it repelled the invasion by five Arab armies, the West Bank, Gaza and half of Jerusalem, were left in Arab hands. But for the next 19 years when these territories remained under Arab control, there was never any consideration given to creating an Arab state there. On the contrary, the focus of the Arab world was on extinguishing the fledgling state of Israel that existed in the truncated borders left by the 1949 armistice lines.
In the years after the 1967 war, Israel has maintained a willingness to negotiate a peace deal based on the concept of “land for peace.” Indeed, at Camp David in July 2000 and the following January at Taba, Egypt, Israel offered the Palestinians a state in these lands as well as part of Jerusalem. The answer from Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was “no,” and he followed up that refusal by launching a terrorist war of attrition that resulted in over a thousand Jewish deaths and even more suffering on the part of his own people.
Myth #5: The plight of Palestinian refugees is a special case of dispossession that must be redressed by international action.
In the aftermath of World War II, millions of refugees were created by the partition of India, the re-drawing of the map of Europe, as well as by the war brought on by the Arab refusal to accept the UN’s partition of Palestine. Only in the case of Palestinians who fled their home during the course of Israel’s War of Independence, was there a failure to re-settle the refugees. The Palestinian refugees, whose exit from the country was caused more by a general fear of the war sweeping over the land than by any action on the part of the Israelis, were the only refugees who were kept in camps and not allowed to integrate into the populations of the Arab countries that received them. They were kept homeless as a means of maintaining the illusion that the creation of Israel could be undone. Subsequent generations of this population have been raised in these camps and inculcated in an irredentist ideology whose premise is the rejection of any Jewish state. They remain the wards of a UN agency (the United Nations Relief Works Agency) that is devoted to perpetuating their status as refugees at a cost of billions of dolllars on international aid.
On the other hand, several hundred thousand Jews living in Arab countries were evicted from their homes during this same era and forced to flee to safety in Israel or the West — where they were integrated into society.
Myth #6: The occupation of eastern Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights in 1967 was the result of an Israeli war of aggression.
In May 1967, Egypt launched a blockade of Israel’s southern port of Eilat. Egyptian and Syrian forces massed on Israel’s borders. Egypt demanded, and got, the UN peacekeeping force that separated their army from Israel in the Sinai, to withdraw. Egyptian dictator Gamal Abdul Nasser and other Arab leaders told their peoples that they would soon launch a battle of annihilation that would result in Israel’s destruction. When international diplomacy failed to get the Arabs to back down, Israel decided that it would not wait to be attacked and launched a defensive war to forestall the Arab assault.
After the war ended in a sweeping Israeli victory, Israel stated its willingness to make peace, but an Arab summit conference a month later answered with three no’s. No peace. No recognition. No negotiations.
Myth #7: Jewish settlements are the main, if not the sole, obstacle to peace in the Middle East.
Though many legal sources claim that Jewish settlements in the West Bank are illegal, the fact remains that the right of Jewish settlement in those lands was guaranteed by the Mandate for Palestine of the League of Nations. This territory was never part of any other sovereign state and its final legal status is subject to negotiations that must be concluded between the competing parties. Until such time as there is a peace accord which gives one side or the other sovereignty in this territory, it is inaccurate to refer to this land as belonging to one side or another.
Twice before, Israel has shown a willingness to uproot Jewish communities for the sake of peace: in the Sinai (given back to Egypt in the 1979 Peace Treaty) and in Gaza (from which Israel withdrew unilaterally in 2005). The existence of settlements in these areas is no bar to a peace deal under which they might be withdrawn.
Myth #8: The failure of the Oslo peace process was the result of actions by hard-line Israeli governments.
The Oslo process was embraced by Israel in the hope that an offer of land would be met with genuine peace. However, the result of years of negotiations and various Israeli withdrawals has not been peace. From the start of Palestinian Authority rule in the West Bank and Gaza in 1994, Palestinian leadership has encouraged terrorism against Israel and fomented hatred against the Jewish state — while “peace education” is promulgated in Israeli schools. Throughout the 1990s as Israel signed several agreements that gave the Palestinians more autonomy, the corrupt PA leadership continued to tolerate and even fund terror groups. In 2000, Yasser Arafat refused Israel’s offer of a Palestinian state in virtually all of the West Bank and Gaza as well as part of Jerusalem — and launched the terror offensive known as the Second Intifada.
Though all Israeli governments have, at times, been forced to reply with force to terrorist attacks from Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank, all have stated a willingness to negotiate a peace. Today the Palestinians are split between the Palestinian Authority led by Mahmoud Abbas which is too weak to make peace and Hamas, the rulers of Gaza, who reject it under any circumstances. Both factions reject the legitimacy of a Jewish state.
Myth #9: The Arab-Israeli conflict is the key to all of America’s political, diplomatic and military problems in the Middle East.
The battle over Israel/Palestine is but one of many disputes in the Middle East. The rivalry between the two great Muslim religious strains, Shia and Sunni, has been the source of more wars and more bloodshed than any battle between Arabs and Jews. Similarly, the tensions between Persians (modern day Iran with its Islamist rulers and nuclear ambitions) and Arabs is another perennial conflict that predates the renewal of Jewish sovereignty in the region.
Even more to the point, the conflict between radical Islamists who seek to impose their religious and political views on the rest of the Muslim world, and those who oppose them in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, has nothing to do with Israel or the Palestinians. It is this schism which is at the core of the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. It is this battle for the soul of Islam that gave the impetus to the 9/11 attacks, not the dispute over the borders of the Jewish state.
Though Israel’s foes claim that resentment over its creation fuels Arab and Islamic resentment of the West, such sentiments long predate the rise of Zionism. The clash of civilizations between Islam and the West was the cause of wars between European nations and Muslim countries for centuries with no Jewish involvement. Linking world peace to a resolution of the Palestinian conflict is just another tactic of rejectionist groups bent on perpetuating the conflict and diverting attention from the real issues.
Myth #10: American support for Israel is the result of the manipulations of the U.S. government by Jews.
Support for the return of the Jews to their ancient homeland dates back to the very beginning of American history. Sympathy for the idea of a renewed Jewish state is rooted in the faith of most Americans, as well as in their belief that the persecuted Jewish people were entitled to find a new life in their old home. From the very beginnings of the Zionist movement, it found both a welcome and support from large numbers of Americans. In the aftermath of the Holocaust that support became even greater.
Today, the overwhelming majority of Americans of all faiths and both major political parties see Israel as a friend and an ally. They need no prodding from a Jewish lobby to understand that the alliance with the Jewish state is based on common values and a shared belief in democracy. While Israel’s supporters in Washington are vocal and proud of it, their financial clout is dwarfed by that of an oil industry and other factions with a vested interest in appeasing Arab dictators and monarchs. But the American people’s identification with Israel and their sense of solidarity with it have prevailed because these ideas are rooted deeply in American history and tradition.
James,
Posting others’ work without attribution is called “plagiarism”. You are not the author of this list. My response follows:
Strawman fallacy. Nobody denies the historic connection. Bottom line: That historic connection does not give the Jews any legal right to the land, nor does it justify their crimes against the Palestinians, their ethnic cleansing of Palestine, and their theft of Arab lands.
Strawman. Nobody argues this. Bottom line: The Israeli annexation of Jerusalem is illegal under international law.
True. From the very beginning, the founder of the Zionist movement, Theodore Hertzl, wrote in his journal that he wished to “spirit the penniless population” out of Palestine.
Most of the Zionist leadership rejected partition. David Ben-Gurion and Chaim Weizmann favored the idea, but only as a strategic move towards taking the whole of Palestine, by force, if necessary, as Ben-Gurion wrote.
True. The U.N. Partition proposal called for the minority Jews, who owned 7% of the land, to be given more than half of Palestine, while the majority Arabs who owned 86% of Palestine, were to receive less than half of their own land. The Jews would give up no land to the Arabs, but the Arabs would give up enormous swaths to the Jews.
The UN Special Commission on Palestine that recommended partition explicitly rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination. The Arabs proposed that the independence of Palestine be recognized and a representative government including Jews be established under a constitution that recognized the rights of the Jewish minority.
The Zionists and their Western benefactors rejected that democratic solution, and the Zionists then unilaterally, with no legal authority, declared the existence of Israel, and subsequently ethnically cleansed Palestine, never allowing Arabs to return to their own homes and lands.
Israel and the U.S. have since consistently blocked the implementation of a two-state solution.
The “offer” made to Yasser Arafat consisted of negative concessions on the part of Israel. All the concessions were expected of the Arabs. ALL of the illegally occupied territories belong to the Arabs. ALL of the Israeli colonies in the territories are illegal.
True. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine created the refugee problem that exists today. Under international law, all refugees have a recognized right of return to their homelands.
True. See my article.
Debatable. Israeli violence against Palestinians is also a major contributing factor, as is Israel’s policy of blocking any two-state settlement — of which the continued settlement activity is only a part.
The illegality of Israeli settlements is not a “claim”, it is a fact of law. The claim that Jews have a “right” to settle the Palestinian territories that was “guaranteed by the Mandate for Palestine of the League of Nations” is a fabrication.
The Israeli withdraws from the Sinai and Gaza were not concessions, as both occupations were illegal under international law and as Israel had no legal right to those lands.
True. Israel was unwilling to make any concessions to the Palestinians, and then ended the talks when Arafat was unwilling to accept Israeli annexation of major swaths of the West Bank, Israeli control of Palestine’s borders, its airspace, Israeli military outposts within Palestine, Jewish-only highways dividing the West Bank into cantons, Israeli control of the aquifer, etc.
Agreed. Ending U.S. aggression against other states is also crucial to solving its political, diplomatic and military problems in the ME.
Arguably, however, U.S. support for Israeli crimes against Palestinians is the leading factor contributing to U.S. problems internationally, and was the leading motivation for the 9/11 attacks.
Agreed. The Israeli lobby is a factor, particularly in the Congress, but U.S. policy makers primarily have their own perceived self-interests in mind.
Jews have far more of a prior claim to Israel then Europeans have to North and South America, I don’t see the European Imperialists who took over these two huge continents handing over their deeds to the remaining native populations, do you? Instead, what we have is the JEWS being scapegoated by many of these same people for doing nothing more then re-occupying land they lived on for over 3 K yrs. In other words, most of the people whining about how the Jews stole Palestine are hypocrites.
If you are attempting to charge me with hypocrisy, you just did the worst job of it I’ve ever seen.
You must have seen many.
I have, indeed. It’s very common for people to resort to the ad hominem fallacy when they’re lost for any words towards a logically valid argument.
Most European Jews have no DNA connection to the ancient Israelites. Those Jews never lived in Israel. The Jews that remained were Palestinians. Some remained Jewish, others converted to Christianity, and most became Muslim. Palestinians are the true heirs to the Israelite Kingdom.
Nonsense. Maybe all you Jew haters should spend more time whining about the European theft of North and South America if your so upset over colonialism in general.
The thing is though, glennk, North and South America were seriously under populated..
Palestine was pretty full, as the 1919 King-Crane Commission reported “A Jewish Homeland in Palestine is not viable, because to would require the removal of the intrinsic population, and could only be sustained by force of arms” Prophetic eh!
If you have noticed, all those European imperialist colonies where there was a large establish native population, no longer exist, foreign minority rule has never succeeded permanently, they always get kicked out.
Or bewail the invasion, arabisation and islamisation of the highly advanced civilisations from the indus to spain, within 100 years of the death of mahomet, by arab muslim nomads, and the subsequent 1400 years of imperialist, fascist, racist, supremacist colonisation that basically wiped out entire people’s identity and traumatised them under oppressive cruel barbaric sharia islam, just the way isis is doing today. And then the perpetual unholy jihad on humanity that continues unabated by the monsters that islam breeds.
If you live in America, get out of Ohio or Arizona and go back to Wales or England please. You’re on occupied land lol. Of course you’re giving a racial view of the conflict instead of wanting them to live in one place as cousins. You’re a divider, and an outsider to boot.
You do know that that bullshit was debunked over 100 years ago right?
They didn’t have DNA testing 100 years ago. This in fact remains a matter of some controversy.
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/12/14/gbe.evs119.full.pdf
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-jewish-people-s-ultimate-treasure-hunt.premium-1.490539
http://forward.com/news/israel/175912/jews-a-race-genetic-theory-comes-under-fierce-atta/
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/leaked-report-israel-acknowledges-jews-in-fact-khazars-secret-plan-for-reverse-migration-to-ukraine/
So you area racist and a Hack?
The Khazar Conspiracy was discredited as the utter horseshit it is a century ago.
You would know that if you didn’t get what little qualifications in a cereal packet.
BTW Journalists and academics with any gravitas don’t spend their days trolling the comments sections of their own articles.
Are you accusing the Jewish author of the peer-reviewed study, Haaretz, the Jewish daily Forward, and the Times of Israel of being anti-Semitic hacks?
Speaking of trolling, it is a violation of the terms of use of this site, as is launching personal attacks.
yes, they are stupid leftist jews who think that there is such a thing as a utopia, even with muslims around. How dumb can one be?
Well, you see, mahomet, the false profit of arabia, convinced his arab nomad slaves who served is raiding and enslaving industry so well, that all christians and jews should in fact accept islam since islam is the “true religion”, making false claim on Abraham and Ishmael, saying that they built the pagan kaaba, when in fact it has been irrefutably proven that the kaaba was built in the 400ADs by a Yemenite king, and that is also when mecca began to exist. The reason why muslims are murdering jews and christians and apostates and the godless, is because it is a criminal terrorist organisation seeking world domination.
It failed in its mission when the christian crusaders stopped them and it will fail again, because good always triumphs over evil in the end, and the time for the end of all evil and death is drawing nigh, and that is what is stirring up the beast of islam, which satan rides into his NWO, sharia islam?
Jews in fact migrated north and have integrated to a large extent with the gentiles of the north. It is like saying that you are not a muslim because you migrated to america and married an american etc.
If you are referring to Mohammed as the false Prophet Julie, then he came from Medina which was in Hijaz.
The current name “Saudi Arabia” was created in the 1930`s when the Saudi family living in Hijaz were imposed as “rulers” by the British (with US encouragement).
Hijaz was renamed Saudi Arabia, mainly to emphasise that the Hashimite family had no authority in Hijaz,
Using your logic, “Arab`s” should be called “Hijas`s”.
Your knowledge of history with regard to the “Islamic” advance is also seriously inaccurate.
Islam was driven out of Spain between the 12th and 15th centuries, so was Judaism and the wrong type of Christianity!
The Crusades were an almost 200 year Western attempt (Exactly the same as Israel today) to establish a Christian Kingdom(s). Ultimately they failed because they refused to integrate with the intrinsic population, “relations” with Muslims was punished by male castration with a female having her nose cut off.
In Israel today that does not happen of course, but marriages between Israelis and Arab Muslims/Christians are simply not regognised by Israel, pretty much like the Bantu regulations in white South Africa.
P.S. White supremacy also failed in South Africa, it`s a Will of the people thing!
P.P.S. All religion is for the mentally undeveloped, no matter what it`s called.
Parroting Shlomo Sandian faux science won’t do. Nations don’t have DNA tests that they have to pass.
That’s true, nations don’t have DNA tests. But Israel only wants White European Jews. The Black or Africa Jews were placeholders until they could get rid of the Arabs.
But Israel makes the claim that they are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who mad the Kingdom of Israel. They are not. Palestinians are.
Here are the DNA studies I use:
American author and Professor of Political Science Alan Dowty put it best when he wrote, “Palestinians are the descendants of all the indigenous peoples who lived in Palestine over the centuries.” Moreover, studies suggest, that part, if not the majority of Arabs living in Palestine, descend from a core population that dates back thousands of years.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-sheppard/i-traveled-to-palestine_b_4761896.html
High-Resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs Reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews
Almut Nebel · Dvora Filon · Deborah A. Weiss · Michael Weale · Marina Faerman · Ariella Oppenheim · Mark G. Thomas 21 November 2000 c. Springer-Verlag 2000
Abstract
High-resolution Y chromosome haplotype analysis was performed in 143 paternally unrelated Israeli and Palestinian Moslem Arabs (I&P Arabs) by screening for 11 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. Two frequent haplotypes were found among the 83 detected: the modal haplotype of the I&P Arabs (~14%) was spread throughout the region, while its one-step microsatellite neighbor, the modal haplotype of the Galilee sample (~8%), was mainly restricted to the north. Geographic substructuring within the Arabs was observed in the high-lands of Samaria and Judea. Y chromosome variation inthe I&P Arabs was compared to that of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, and to that of North Welsh individuals. At the haplogroup level, defined by the binary polymorphisms only, the Y chromosome distribution in Arabs and Jews was similar but not identical. At the haplotype level, determined by both binary and microsatellite markers, a
more detailed pattern was observed. Single-step micro-satellite networks of Arab and Jewish haplotypes revealed a common pool for a large portion of Y chromosomes,suggesting a relatively recent common ancestry. The two modal haplotypes in the I&P Arabs were closely related to
the most frequent haplotype of Jews (the Cohen modal haplotype). However, the I&P Arab clade that includes the two Arab modal haplotypes (and makes up 32% of Arab chromosomes) is found at only very low frequency among Jews, reflecting divergence and/or admixture from other populations.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf
Dowty, Alan (2008). Israel/Palestine. London, UK: Polity. p. 221. ISBN 978-0-7456-4243-7. “Palestinians are the descendants of all the indigenous peoples who lived in Palestine over the centuries; since the seventh century, they have been predominantly Muslim in religion and almost completely Arab in language and culture.”
Likhovski, Assaf (2006). Law and identity in mandate Palestine. The University of North Carolina Press. p. 174. ISBN 978-0-8078-3017-8.
According to Rashid Khalidi, the modern Palestinian identity encompasses the heritage of all ages from biblical times up to the Ottoman period. (Rashid Khalidi, Palestinian identity: the construction of modern national consciousness, Columbia University Press, 2009 p.18.)
According to Palestinian author Walid Khalidi: “the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial.”
(“(With reference to Palestinians in Ottoman times) Although proud of their Arab heritage and ancestry, the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial, including the ancient Hebrews and the Canaanites before them.
Acutely aware of the distinctiveness of Palestinian history, the Palestinians saw themselves as the heirs of its rich associations.”) and according to Palestinian anthropologist Ali Qleibo: “in their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture.”
(“Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabateans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and European crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and Mongols, were historical ‘events’ whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes … Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture.”
Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times.(Gibbons, Ann (October 30, 2000).
“Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry”. ScienceNOW. American Academy for the Advancement of Science.. Studies cited are: M. F. Hammer et al. (2000).
“Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes”. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 97 (12): 6769–6774. doi:10.1073/pnas.100115997. PMC 18733. PMID 10801975. and Almut Nebel et al. (2000).
“High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews”. Human Genetics 107 (6): 630–641. doi:10.1007/s004390000426. PMID 11153918.
Another study says; “Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.” “Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim,’The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East,’ American Journal of Human Genetics, November 2001; 69(5): 1095–1112. 10.1086/324070,PMCID: PMC1274378.)
Jerusalem, in short, has been the focal point of the idea of Jewish national self-determination on Jewish historical land. Ernst Frankenstein, a British-based
authority on international law in the inter-war period, made the case for
arguing the legal rights of the Jewish people to restore their homeland by
stating that they never relinquished title to their land after the Roman
conquests. For that to have happened, the Romans and their Byzantine successors
would have had to be in “continuous and undisturbed possession” of the land
with no claims being voiced. Yet Jewish resistance movements continued for
centuries, most of which were aimed at liberating Jerusalem.2
From the standpoint of international law, the fact that the Jewish people never renounced their historic connection to their ancestral homeland provided the basis for their assertion of their historical rights.3 This came to be understood by those who
wrote about the Jewish legal claim to the Land of Israel, as a whole. In the Blackstone Memorial, which was signed by Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court Melville Fuller, university presidents, and members of Congress before it was submitted to President
Benjamin Harrison in 1891, Palestine is characterized as “an inalienable possession” of the Jewish people “from which they were expelled by force.”4 In short, they did not voluntarily abandon their land or forget their rights. is was most fervently expressed through centuries of lamentation for Jerusalem’s destruction and their constant prayer for its restoration.
Jerusalem was the focal point for the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel.
That is why it is essential to understand Israel’s rights in Jerusalem, as they were known once before.
That is also why it is necessary to identify the arguments that have been
employed in recent years with the aim of eroding those rights, and the
conviction that once underpinned them, in order to protect Jerusalem for future generations. In addition to the historical rights of the Jewish people to Jerusalem that were voiced in the nineteenth century, and were just brie y reviewed, there is a whole new layer of legal rights that Israel acquired in modern times that need to be fully
elaborated upon.
MODERN SOURCES OF ISRAEL’S INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS IN JERUSALEM
In 1970, three years after the 1967 Six-Day War, an article appearing in the most prestigious international legal periodical, The American Journal of International Law,
touched directly on the question of Israel’s rights in Jerusalem.5 It became a
critical reference point for Israeli ambassadors speaking at the UN in the
immediate decades that followed and also found its way into their speeches. The
article was written by an important, but not yet well-known, legal scholar
named Stephen Schwebel. In the years that followed, Schwebel’s stature would
grow immensely with his appointment as the legal advisor of the U.S. Department
of State, and then finally when he became the President of the International
Court of Justice in the Hague. In retrospect, his legal opinions mattered and were worth considering very carefully.
Schwebel wrote his article, which was entitled “What Weight to Conquest,” in response to a statement by then Secretary of State William Rogers that Israel was only entitled to “insubstantial alterations” in the pre-1967 lines. The Nixon administration had also hardened U.S. policy on Jerusalem as reacted in its statements and voting patterns in
the UN Security Council. Schwebel strongly disagreed with this approach: he
wrote that the pre-war lines were not sacrosanct, for the 1967 lines were not
an international border. Formally, they were only armistice lines from 1949. As
he noted, the armistice agreement itself did not preclude the territorial
claims of the parties beyond those lines. Significantly, he explained that when
territories are captured in a war, the circumstances surrounding the outbreak
of the conflict directly affect the legal rights of the two sides, upon its termination.
Two facts from 1967 stood out that influenced his thinking:
First, Israel had acted in the Six-Day War in the lawful exercise
of its right of self-defense. Those familiar with the events that led to its
outbreak recall that Egypt was the party responsible for the initiation of
hostilities, through a series of steps that included the closure of the Straits
of Tiran to Israeli shipping and the proclamation of a blockade on Eilat, an
act that Foreign Minister Abba Eban would characterize as the ring of the first shot of the war. Along Israel’s eastern front, Jordan’s artillery had opened fire and re-pounding civilian neighborhoods in Jerusalem, despite repeated warnings issued by Israel.
Given this background, Israel had not captured territory as a result of aggression,
but rather because it had come under armed attack. In fact, the Soviet Union
had tried to have Israel labeled as the aggressor in the UN Security Council on
June 14, 1967, and then in the UN General Assembly on July 4, 1967. But Moscow completely failed. At the Security Council it was outvoted 11-4. Meanwhile at the General Assembly, 88 states voted against or abstained on the first vote of a proposed Soviet draft (only 32 states supported it). It was patently clear to the majority of UN members that Israel had waged a defensive war.6
A second element in Schwebel’s thinking was the fact Jordan’s claim to legal title over the territories it had lost to Israel in the Six-Day War was very problematic. The
Jordanian invasion of the West Bank – and Jerusalem – nineteen years earlier in 1948 had been unlawful.
As a result, Jordan did not gain legal rights in the years that followed, given
the legal principle, that Schwebel stressed, according to which no right can be
born of an unlawful act (ex injuria jus non oritur). It should not have come as
a surprise that Jordan’s claim to sovereignty over the West Bank was not recognized by anyone, except for Pakistan and Britain. Even the British would not recognize the Jordanian claim in Jerusalem itself.
Thus, by comparing Jordan’s illegal invasion of the West Bank to Israel’s legal exercise of its right of self-defense, Schwebel concluded that “Israel has better title” in the
territory of what once was the Palestine Mandate than either of the Arab states
with which it had been at war. He specifically stated that Israel had better legal title to “the whole of Jerusalem.”
Schwebel makes reference to UN Security Council Resolution 242 from November 22, 1967, which over the years would become the main source
for all of Israel’s peace e orts, from the 1979 Egyptian Israeli Treaty
of Peace to the 1993 Oslo Accords. In its famous withdrawal clause, Resolution
242 did not call for a full withdrawal of Israeli forces from all the
territories it captured in the Six-Day War. ere was no e ort to re-establish
the status quo ante, which, as noted earlier, was the product of a previous act
of aggression by Arab armies in 1948.
As the U.S. ambassador to the UN in 1967, Arthur Goldberg,
pointed out in 1980, Resolution 242 did not even mention Jerusalem “and this omission was deliberate.” Goldberg made the point, reacting the policy of the Johnson administration for whom he served, that he never described Jerusalem as “occupied territory,” though this changed under President Nixon.7 What Goldberg wrote about Resolution 242 had added weight, given the fact that he previously had served as a Justice on the U.S. Supreme Court.
Indeed, among the leading jurists in international law and diplomacy, Schwebel was clearly not alone. He was joined by Julius Stone, the great Australian legal scholar, who reached the same conclusions. He added that UN General Assembly Resolution 181 from 1947 (also known as the Partition Plan) did not undermine Israel’s subsequent claims in Jerusalem. True, Resolution 181 envisioned that Jerusalem and its environs would become a corpus separatum, or a separate international entity. But Resolution 181 was only a recommendation of the General Assembly. It was rejected by the Arab states forcibly, who invaded the nascent State of Israel in 1948.
Ultimately, the UN’s corpus separatum never came into being in any case. The UN did not protect the Jewish population of Jerusalem from invading Arab armies. Given this history, it was not surprising that Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, announced on December 3, 1949, that Revolution 181’s references to Jerusalem were “null and void,” thereby anticipating Stone’s legal analysis years later.8
There was also Prof. Elihu Lauterpacht of Cambridge University, who for a time served as legal advisor of Australia and as a judge ad hoc of the International Court of
Justice in The Hague.
Lauterpacht argued that Israel’s reunification of Jerusalem in 1967 was legally valid. 9 He explained that the last state which had sovereignty over Jerusalem was the Ottoman Empire, which ruled it from 1517 to 1917.
After the First World War, the Ottoman Empire formally renounced its sovereignty over Jerusalem as well as all its former territories south of what became modern Turkey in the Treaty of Sevres from 1920. is renunciation was confirmed by the Turkish Republic as well in the Treaty of Lausanne of 1923. According to Lauterpacht, the rights of sovereignty in Jerusalem were vested with the Principal Allied and Associated
Powers, which transferred them to the League of Nations.
But with the dissolution of the League of Nations, the British withdrawal from Mandatory Palestine, and the failure of the UN to create a corpus separatum or a special international regime for Jerusalem, as had been intended according to the 1947 Partition Plan, Lauterpacht concluded that sovereignty had been put in suspense or in
abeyance. In other words, by 1948 there was what he called “a vacancy of
sovereignty” in Jerusalem.
It might be asked if the acceptance by the pre-state Jewish Agency of Resolution 181 constituted a conscious renunciation of Jewish claims to Jerusalem back in 1947. However, according to the resolution, the duration of the special international regime for Jerusalem would be “in the first instance for a period of ten years.” The resolution envisioned a referendum of the residents of the city at that point in which they would express “their wishes as to possible modifications of the regime of the city.”10 The Jewish leadership interpreted the corpus separatum as an interim arrangement that could be replaced. They believed that Jewish residents could opt for citizenship in the Jewish state in the meantime. Moreover, they hoped that the referendum would lead to the corpus seperatum being joined to the State of Israel after ten years. 11
Who then could acquire sovereign rights in Jerusalem given the “vacancy of sovereignty” that Lauterpacht described? Certainly, the UN could not assume a role, given what happened to Resolution 181. Lauterpacht’s answer was that Israel filled “the vacancy in sovereignty” in areas where the Israel Defense Forces had to operate in order to save Jerusalem’s Jewish population from destruction or ethnic
cleansing. The same principle applied again in 1967, when Jordanian forces
opened fire on Israeli neighborhoods and the Israel Defense Forces entered the
eastern parts of Jerusalem, including its Old City, in self-defense.
A fourth legal authority to contribute to this debate over the legal rights of Israel was Prof. Eugene Rostow, the former dean of Yale Law School and Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs in the Johnson administration. Rostow’s point of departure for analyzing the issue of Israel’s rights was that the Mandate for Palestine, which specifically referred to “the historic connection of the Jewish people with Palestine” providing “the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.”
These rights applied to Jerusalem as well, for the Mandate did not separate Jerusalem from the other territory that was to become part of the Jewish national home.
Rostow contrasts the other League of Nations mandates with the mandate for Palestine. Whereas the mandates for Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon served as trusts for the indigenous populations, the language of the Palestine Mandate was entirely different. It supported the national rights of the Jewish people while protecting only the civil and
religious rights of the non-Jewish communities in British Mandatory
Palestine.12 It should be added that the Palestine Mandate was a legal
instrument in the form of a binding international treaty between the League of
Nations, on the one hand, and Britain as the mandatory power, on the other.
Rostow argued that the mandate was not terminated in 1947. He explained that Jewish legal rights to a national home in this territory, which were embedded in British Mandatory Palestine, survived the dissolution of the League of Nations and were preserved by the United Nations in Article 80 of the UN Charter.13 Clearly, after
considering Rostow’s arguments, Israel was well-positioned to assert its rights
in Jerusalem and fill “the vacancy of sovereignty” that Lauterpacht had
described.
You want a pure Arab Palestine. Odd for someone named Jeremy Hammond. At least by Arab.
You are projecting. It is Zionists like you who advocate statehood based on race.
There is a whole arab world out there, whom run governments and raise communities that enforce the human rights violating sharia islam. Islam attacks innocent people based on their religion and since islam is an arabic pagan death cult, it is racist against other muslims, not arab. See Libya and Sudan etc etc etc..
Zionists accepted a 60/40 Jewish state.
Arabs wanted it all and went to War.
Further, most states are Ethnic and many offer preferred citizenship on that basis.
In fact, the two Newest states (South Sudan and Balkan break up) were the result of different groups not getting along… EITHER.
`
Yes, Zionists accepted a “Jewish state” on 55% of the territory despite owning only 7% of the land as a strategic step towards conquering all of Palestine. They accepted a plan to expropriate land from Arabs to redistribute to Jews, and the Arabs naturally rejected this absurd colonialist and racist proposal. By the time the Zionists unilaterally declared the existence of their “Jewish state” and the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.
“Yes, Zionists accepted a “Jewish state” on 55% of the territory despite owning only 7% of the land”
Thank goodness they did….the arab world was about to be 99% ethnically cleansed of Jews so it was indeed fortunate that these 800,000 Jewish refugees has somewhere to go….
And let’s not forget that 78% the land set that was originally earmarked for the Jewish state under the Balfour Declaration had already been given to the Jordanians….
What an absurd ex post facto justification for the Zionists’ theft of Arab land and ethnic cleansing of the Arab population by which it occurred, that the consequent expulsions of Jews from Arab states made it okay.
Also absurd is this statement about 78% of Palestine being “earmarked for the Jewish state under the Balfour Declaration”. Idiotic nonsense.
“Also absurd is this statement about 78% of Palestine being “earmarked for the Jewish state under the Balfour Declaration”. Idiotic nonsense.”
I didn’t say that….I said that 78% of the land that was earmarked for the jewish state under the Balfour declaration was given to the Jordanians….
“Also absurd is this statement about 78% of Palestine being “earmarked for the Jewish state under the Balfour Declaration”. Idiotic nonsense.”
I didn’t say that….I said that 78% of the land that was initially earmarked for the Jewish state under the Balfour declaration was given to the Jordanians….
Map of British controlled “Palestine”.
78% was given to Jordan whose population is still over 50% Palestinian….
Like I said, the assertion that 78% of Palestine was “earmarked for the Jewish state under the Balfour Declaration” is idiotic nonsense. Congratulations on illustrating that Transjordan was included along with Palestine in so-called Palestine Mandate.
Believe what you like….the fact is that 78% of what was the British Mandate for Palestine was given to the Jordanians.
The remaining 22% was split between the arabs and the jews….so the jews ended up with only 12% of what they might have originally expected to get following the Balfour Declaration….yet they still accepted what they were offered….but the arabs chose war instead…..
70 year later they are still choosing war….sad….but true….
Jordan wasn’t “given” to the Jordanians. It was already theirs. Apart from that, this is irrelevant to point. Again, the Jews owned only 7% of the land in Palestine, the Zionist’s unilateral declaration of the existence had no legitimacy, and by the time it occurred, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.
“Jordan wasn’t “given” to the Jordanians. It was already theirs.”
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm……..
On 17 January 1946, Ernest Bevin the British Foreign Secretary, announced in a speech at the General Assembly of the United Nations, that the British Government intended to take steps in the near future to establish Transjordan as a fully independent and sovereign state.
The Treaty of London was signed by the British Government and the Emir of Transjordan on 22 March 1946 as a mechanism to recognise the full independence of Transjordan upon ratification by both countries parliaments.
Transjordan’s impending independence was recognized on April 18, 1946 by the League of Nations during the last meeting of that organization.
On 25 May 1946 the Transjordan became the “Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan” when the ruling ‘Amir’ was re-designated as ‘King’ by the parliament of Transjordan on the day it ratified the Treaty of London.
25 May is still celebrated as independence day in Jordan….
Transjordan did not belong to the UK. It wasn’t the UK’s to “give”. All it did was recognize its independence.
To be more precise – it was given to the Hashemites from the Hejaz, which today is in Saudi Arabia. To keep Abdullah I in power, the British assigned John Glubb to run Jordan’s military.
I guess Jordan is an “illegitimate” state which “stole” Palestine, but getting Hammond the hypocrite to admit this is a different problem.
Occupation of Cyprus by Turks was legal? Killing 1.6 million Armenians was Legal too? Occupation of Armenia and Kurds by Turks is Legal too? Occupation of Tibet by China was legal too? I can continue… Yet the holy book is a good evidence who Jerusalem belongs too.
When you stop using history books for toilet paper purpose you might find our THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO GOT CONNECTION TO HOLY LAND ARE JEWS. There was NO OTHER country but ISRAEL in that region. Tell me smart …ss if Arabs “Palestinians” has connection for 2000, where’s the country??? Why there are plenty evidence by people who visited the region that it was Deserted and Empty??? You simply got no prove but words, while Jews poses facts you’r trying to ignore by playing with minds of uneducated Mass.
Another paid Edomite shill.
Israel didn’t exist until 1948. The historical kingdom by the same name ceased to exist hundreds of years B.C. At the time of the Zionist’s unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel, the Jewish community owned less than 7% of the land. Most of the land was owned by the majority Arab community.
You would know all this if you stopped using history books for toilet paper.
I am sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. My family is from Yemen, my grandfather used to own there a large farm and other assets. My grandfather had informed me that the family kept a family tree of our descendants going back all the way to the destruction of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
And your family’s genealogy illustrates I am wrong on which point and in what way?
You should not be writing articles, with your scant grasp on debate and dialogue, even facts.
You are welcome to point out any error in fact or logic in the article.
But if you are going to use the ‘they were there first’ argument the Jews win every time.
And that arab majority were invaders, colonisers and brutal rulers whom enslaved jewish women, made them their concubines, and cut off their breasts so that they could not breast feed their own children, just in case the jewishness was passed on to the child. The arabs stole that land from the byzantine christians, just like they did all the territory from the Indus to Spain, spreading their evil ideology through violence and oppression. Islam has traumatised the DNA of all those whom it comes into contact with.
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_co…&x_article=291
..”Mattar’s clear, and False, implication is that if Jews owned only some small percentage of the land, then Arabs must have owned the rest, in this case more than 93% of the country.
But this is Nonsense – in Mandate Palestine the Arabs owned little more land than did the Jews.Indeed, going back to Ottoman times, most of the country was state-owned land, not under any individual ownership.
Thus, under the Ottoman code one of the main land categories was miri, meaning land belonging to the Emir.
During the Mandate, the British carried out detailed land surveys, marking off who owned what, and according to figures in the ‘British Survey of Palestine’ (republished and endorsed by Mattar’s Institute for Palestine Studies), at least 65% of the country was state land, and probably much more than that.
[…..]
I hate AMATEURS.
There is Not any of your Ten I couldn’t GUT. (now 2 down)
Talk about nonsense. Here is a map of the land ownership in Palestine from 1945.
http://domino.un.org/maps/m0094.jpg
Why are Palestinian lands coloured in green on your map when the flag of Palestine at that time was blue and white ?
That’s a Zionist flag. The only thing it demonstrates is that the Zionists had ambitions to take over all of Palestine, which is precisely why the Arab community started resenting the Jewish community that until the Zionist movement it had for the most part gotten along with peacefully as neighbors. Palestine was not under Zionist rule in 1939. It was under British rule. This is what the flag of Mandatory Palestine looked like:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg
Of course, the Zionists did take control of most of Palestine, which was accomplished by ethnically cleansing the land of most of its Arab population and stealing their land.
That’s a Zionist flag. The only thing it demonstrates is that the Zionists had ambitions to take over all of Palestine, which is precisely why the Arab community started resenting the Jewish community that until the Zionist movement it had for the most part gotten along with peacefully as neighbors. Palestine was not under Zionist rule in 1939. It was under British rule. Below is what the flag of Mandatory Palestine looked like. Of course, the Zionists did take control of most of Palestine, which was accomplished by ethnically cleansing the land of most of its Arab population and stealing their land.
So there was no independent country called Palestine in 1939 ? That’s what I thought….thanks for confirming that…..
and the map is wrong,
and I documented Precisely why/how.
Arabs did NOT own the Negev; 50% of what later became Israel.
It (along with 15-20% more) was State Land/miri under the Ottomans.
LOL
You are wrong. The map documents precisely why/how.
Although your ‘facts’ are all wrong, it wouldn’t matter if Palestinians arrived the day before the first European Jews arrived in Israel. they were still there first. Palestinians tho, are the descendants of every group that has ever lived there, starting with the Canaanites.
You’re using racial blood and soil fascism.
Palestinians only began to exist during the time of yasser arafat. Arabs and egyptians and persians are the invaders and illegal colonisers of Israel.
Absolutely untrue. For example, just since 1919:
**1919: Aref Al-Dajani President of the Palestine Arab Congress, (also president of the Jerusalem Christian-Muslim Society). Also part of the Executive Committee were Izzat Darwaza and Yusef al-‘Isa, editor of paper Falastin, the newspaper of Palestine. (So much for an invented people.)
**1920-1934: Musa al-Husayni, former mayor of Jerusalem was elected President of the Palestine Arab Congress. It had 36 delegates, including Sheik Suleiman al-Taji Al-Faruqi, Daoud Issa, and head of the Catholic community -Bullus Shehadeh. The congress was opened by Haifa’s mufti, Muhammad Murad.
1921 Musa Kazem led a delegation from the executive committee to meet the British Colonial Secretary, Winston Churchill.
1922- funds were raised by the 100 delegate Congress and Executive Committee by the selling of stamps that depicted the Dome of the Rock and said “Palestine for the Arabs” in English and Arabic. (again…usage of the national identity term “Palestine.”
A Women’s Congress, attended by 200 women, was convened in 1929. Organisers included Wahida al-Khalidi (wife of Hussein al-Khalidi) and Amina al-Husayni (wife of Jamal al-Husayni). It was led by Salma al-Husayni, wife of Musa Kazim.
**1934, Christian executive vice-president Yacoub Farraj became acting president. The Palestine Arab Congress was eventually broken up by the British and other groups took its place in a splintered Palestine.
April – Palestine Arab Party established.
23 June – Reform Party (Palestine) established.
**1935- 25 April – The Arab Higher Committee is established, on the initiative of the Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin al-Husayni, to oppose British rule and Jewish claims in Palestine.
**1936-1939 Palestine Arab Revolt for Independence against the British. Palestinian Arabs -Arab Higher Committee (until October 1937)
Central Committee of National Jihad in Palestine (from October 1937) 1 in 10 Palestinian adults were murdered by the British and led to greater support for the Zionist immigration and division of Palestine. Palestine was lead by city leaders during this time. Each city had its own leader and coordinated attacks against the British.
From 1939-1948 Britain and Palestinians fought. Zionist immigration expands dramatically, most of the Kibbutzes are founded. thousands of Palestinians are murdered and most Palestinian villages are destroyed.
**1948-1959 All-Palestine Government established and is recognized by all Arab League States, except the Trans-Jordan. The Prime Minister of the Gaza-seated administration was Ahmed Hilmi Pasha, and the President was Hajj Amin al-Husseini, former chairman of the Arab Higher Committee. The Government was taken over and dissolved by Egyptian President Nasser, who was trying to establish a Pan-Arab nation.
Palestine was occupied by Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. War, massacres, and refugee status led to a largely government-less population.
****1966-Palestine National Congress established, with 422 representatives under Ahmad Al-Shuqeiry as the elected Chairman.
1969-2004 Yassir Arafat was Chairman until his death.
1988 Palestine declared its independence, and under the Oslo Accords, recognized Israel’s right to exist, deleting the part of the charter that said otherwise.
Thanks. I copied this off for reference.
PERSIANS??? boy, you really do not know your history.
Persians are today the iranians. I am sure there are iranians in the Gaza helping out Hamas in their unholy jihad on the jews, as well as pakistanis, afghans, sudanese. We can also add the Mongolian Turks, saudis, syrians.
Muslims themselves know the truth about the fake nation of Palestinians. But lying is a religious duty as well, in islam.
March 23, 2012 Clip No. 3389
Hamas Minister of the Interior and
of National Security Fathi Hammad Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza
Strip, and Says: “Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other
Half Are Saudis.”
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/3389.htm
Today, Palestine is Jordan, and Israel exists. Just like the Bible foretold.
Why not throw in Martians while you are at it? :::shaking head:::
I believe Pagans pre-date the Israelis, and solomon had pagan idols in the temple too. And who were these Pagans? Canaanites, the ancestors of the Palestinians.
The Canaanites have no descendants. The Palestinians are descendants of 1st Caliphate and later Arabs.
Nice to see this article being published in Turkish:
http://www.timeturk.com/israil-filistin-hakkinda-on-yanlis-dusunce_130356-haberi.html
Thanks for sharing the link, LT.
As long as the Jewsih media pay for it, it would be published.
But we do know those who deny that Israel regularly targets Palestinians with rockets from aircraft, keeps around 11000 Palestinians in prison, and maintains an illegal blockade of Gaza denying it important medical supplies – namely most of the US media by their silence on these matters.
A gala event has occurred in Gaza.
Hamas sponsored a mass wedding for four hundred and fifty couples.
Most of the grooms were in their mid to late twenties; most of brides were under ten.
Muslim dignitaries including Mahmud Zahar, a leader of Hamas, were on hand to congratulate the couples who took part in the carefully staged celebration.
We are saying to the world and to America that you cannot deny us joy and happiness, Zahar told the grooms, all of whom were dressed in identical black suits and hailed from the nearby Jabalia refugee camp.
Each groom received a gift of 500 dollars from Hamas.
The pre-pubescent girls, dressed in white gowns and adorned with garish make-up, received bridal bouquets.
We are presenting this wedding as a gift to our people who stood firm in the face of the siege and the war, Local Hamas strongman Ibrahim Salaf said in a speech.
The wedding photos tell the rest of the sordid tale.
Paedo Pals
The International Center for Research on Women now estimates that there are 51 million child brides now living on planet earth and almost all in Muslim countries.
Twenty-nine percent of these child brides are regularly beaten and molested by their husbands in Egypt ; twenty six percent receive similar abuse in Jordan .
Every year, three million Muslim girls are subjected to genital mutilation, according to UNICEF. This practice has not been outlawed in many parts of America .
This claim of a mass wedding of “pre-pubescent girls” is false. Take your propaganda elsewhere. It is not welcome here.
This propaganda reminds me of paedophile prophet propaganda. The rationale is always the same; Islam is a religion of perversion. The real perverts are those who invented these lies. The best reply to you Jem; some Muslim girls marry before 18, thats right, but do not forget those girls losing their virginity or being pregnant just at 12-13 in your so called civil world. Muslims did not invent child pornography, perverts.
Of course they didn’t. Since they didn’t have the technology at that time. But when it comes to exploiting pre-pubescent girls the arab world has always been worse than the western world, because it has been a taboo in the western world for far longer, and there are far more and stricter laws against it.
Yeah, right… Will you please mention the number of kids abused in Western countries ( in Australia it is one of every three and by one of their relatives) or the number of rich Western “men” paying a fortune to have ” the first night “fantasy in Thailand or Philippines with girls as little as 10 which they couldnt with their own wives? And let’s remember the Austrian men who had more than 7 children from his own DAUGHTER. You are right mate… Muslims have a lot to learn from you…
I thought it might be interesting to chip in a recent theoretical discussion that emerged from Jean-Paul Gagnon’s work. He showed that it is more beneficent for a state to secede a territory that has an overwhelming majority in favor of independence. It could benefit the state seceding territory economically, peacefully, and democratically. It is also, in a democratic sense, the only legitimate thing to do as a portion of its citizenry would be wanting independence. Israel has no legitimacy over Palestine in this respect. All citizenries, and those groups composing the plurality, have a right to self-government. Let’s take a step in the right direction, and continue to solve the rest of the problems from a more positive vantage.
Greetings to all. The reasons for Arab-Israeli conflict is the occupation of Palestine.
Palestine Arab Islamic state like the rest of the Arab and Islamic states surrounding
Them. Means that there are Jews and Zionists in Palestine a big mistake, because this entity
Zionist is not consistent with the surrounding area (such as language, customs, traditions and religion)
The only solution to end the Arab-Israeli conflict is the expulsion of Jews from Palestine
All of Palestine. The Jewish people will not rest and will not feel comfortable and stability
But if it gets out of Palestine and the Middle East completely. If people continue to
Jews in Palestine and the Middle East, the death and destruction will continue.
Palestine Arab Islamic state and will remain
“The only solution to end the Arab-Israeli conflict is the expulsion of Jews from Palestine All of Palestine.”
It’s precisely hateful comments like that which Zionists grasp onto in order to justify their policies, thus allowing them to continue their occupation and other crimes. Wise up.
It is not a matter of simply “hateful comments.” It is a matter of hateful behavior.
When Israel made its Declaration, the neighboring Arab nations (who also were not owners or in control of the land) invaded the new state. What was their right to declare war against another country that had not invaded THEIR land but put down a stake next door in an area controlled by the British? If they had a beef, would it not have been appropriate to attempt to negotiate peacefully? Alas, that was not their way and Al-Hassani, the father of violent anti-Zionism certainly didn’t encourage negotiations.
So then, when the indigenous Arabs were told by their invading brethren to get out or be considered complicit with the Jews and the Israelis don’t allow them back in amidst fears of a hostile minority, suddenly it’s a matter of premeditated ethnic cleansing…which makes no sense since 20% of the Israeli population is Israeli Arabs with greater equality and rights than they have in their own countries.
That doesn’t change what was written into the Declaration – a plea for indigenous Arabs to stay and share the land in peace. In addition, there is also a distinction to be made between ownership of the land and control of it. Public sector sovereignty does not equate to private land ownership and at no time did the Zionists say that private landowners would not be able to keep their land if they did not wish to sell it. One can argue that the Jews received a larger partition of the area that was justified by the population or land ownership but that doesn’t mean the land was literally stolen and since multiple Arab leaders stated clearly that the Jews should not be allocated ANY land whatsoever, one wonders what sort of “fair” allocation could have been worked out. The Zionists were not looking to take over the entire region but some of their opponents didn’t want them to have ANY, which is not a great environment for compromise.
Your claims that there was premeditated ethnic cleansing in Palestine are unsubstantiated except as supposedly documented by Pappe whose work is full of contradictions and logical fallacies. From growing up with people involved in the Zionist movement in both Europe and Israel, I know that the movement overall was intended as a peaceful method of achieving a Jewish state but not at the expense of indigenous Arabs. This is written in the Declaration of Eretz Yisrael. However, with violent opposition from the Grand Mufti and others that transcended anti-Zionism and did indeed include anti-Semitism that was rampant at the time, the conditions certainly helped extremists develop among Zionists as well.
Ownership of the land did not transfer to the Zionists by virtue of a unilateral declaration of statehood on land they owned only 7% of.
By the time the neighboring Arab states “invaded” Palestine, the Zionists had already ethnically cleansed a quarter million Palestinians.
The land was “literally” stolen, yes. Very literally.
1 Thing: There is no other Jewish State. It is not like kicking out the British to Britain or the French to France. And I don’t know why Jewish/Muslim can’t live together? You seem like a Chauvinist to me tbh.
Arab propoganda !
Why are you showing a picture of a tank???
Why don’t you show pictures of suicide bombers and blown up mall ?
I invite you to point out any error in fact or logic you think is present in anything I wrote, James.
I invite you to present sources for anything you’ve written. The world isn’t as black and white as you think, more like different shades of gray
Okay. In the first sentence, I said Arabs were a majority in Palestine. Here’s a source for that:
UN General Assembly, United Nations Special
Committee on Palestine Report to the General Assembly, Volume 1, A/364 (September 3, 1947), http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3.
My invitation to James is open to you, as well, to point out any error in fact or logic you think is present in anything I wrote.
I would only suggest that people stop referring to Israel’s adversaries as “Arabs.” Identifying Israel’s victims by an ethnic (or religious) characteristic is partly false and very misleading – and it plays into the Zionist wish to portray the conflict in racial terms. In reality, the predominant ethnicity of those in the region the Zionists chose for their expressly racist “Jewish” state has never been relevant. The ethnic-cleansing was based solely on the victims’ failure to be sufficiently “Jewish.” If the locals had been Chinese or Inuit or Amish, the history would be much the same. It’s also important to note that “Palestinian” does not apply to ethnicity or religion: it has always applied to anyone with legitimate right to live in “Palestine,” and this group has always included many ethnicities and religions, including “Jewish,” of course. The conflict will end only when those taxpayers who would not KNOWINGLY finance overt ethnic and religious prejudice begin to raise some audible objection to their governments’ financing of any such policies, by anyone involved – same as everywhere else. The fact that this would lead to a single egalitarian state – all legal claims and complaints addressed without reference to anyone’s religion or ethnicity – is merely an incidental consequence of justice itself.
Excellent point. And there are no “Israeli” Arabs. There are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, second=hand tho it may be.
Palestinian people are as fake as the royhinga muslims, who are from Bangladesh doing their evil islamic migration jihad on the buddhists in burma etc. Palestinians are from egypt, iraq, saudi arabia, syria, turkey, pakistan, iran, etc etc etc. They are not indigenous to this area. They are simply muslims who believe that this world belongs to them only. They are the true colonial, imperialist, fascist and racist people. The rest of us kaffirs and apostates, are simply responding in kind their their crimes against us for over a millennia.
Absolutely untrue and racist to boot.
Palestinians have *always* been there. In fact, their DNA is closer to the ancient Israelites than European Jews.
American author and Professor of Political Science Alan Dowty put it best when he wrote, “Palestinians are the descendants of all the indigenous peoples who lived in Palestine over the centuries.” Moreover, studies suggest, that part, if not the majority of Arabs living in Palestine, descend from a core population that dates back thousands of years.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-sheppard/i-traveled-to-palestine_b_4761896.html
High-Resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs Reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews
Almut Nebel · Dvora Filon · Deborah A. Weiss · Michael Weale · Marina Faerman · Ariella Oppenheim · Mark G. Thomas 21 November 2000 c. Springer-Verlag 2000
Abstract
High-resolution Y chromosome haplotype analysis was performed in 143 paternally unrelated Israeli and Palestinian Moslem Arabs (I&P Arabs) by screening for 11 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. Two frequent haplotypes were found among the 83 detected: the modal haplotype of the I&P Arabs (~14%) was spread throughout the region, while its one-step microsatellite neighbor, the modal haplotype of the Galilee sample (~8%), was mainly restricted to the north. Geographic substructuring within the Arabs was observed in the high-lands of Samaria and Judea. Y chromosome variation inthe I&P Arabs was compared to that of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, and to that of North Welsh individuals. At the haplogroup level, defined by the binary polymorphisms only, the Y chromosome distribution in Arabs and Jews was similar but not identical. At the haplotype level, determined by both binary and microsatellite markers, a
more detailed pattern was observed. Single-step micro-satellite networks of Arab and Jewish haplotypes revealed a common pool for a large portion of Y chromosomes,suggesting a relatively recent common ancestry. The two modal haplotypes in the I&P Arabs were closely related to
the most frequent haplotype of Jews (the Cohen modal haplotype). However, the I&P Arab clade that includes the two Arab modal haplotypes (and makes up 32% of Arab chromosomes) is found at only very low frequency among Jews, reflecting divergence and/or admixture from other populations.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf
Dowty, Alan (2008). Israel/Palestine. London, UK: Polity. p. 221. ISBN 978-0-7456-4243-7. “Palestinians are the descendants of all the indigenous peoples who lived in Palestine over the centuries; since the seventh century, they have been predominantly Muslim in religion and almost completely Arab in language and culture.”
Likhovski, Assaf (2006). Law and identity in mandate Palestine. The University of North Carolina Press. p. 174. ISBN 978-0-8078-3017-8.
According to Rashid Khalidi, the modern Palestinian identity encompasses the heritage of all ages from biblical times up to the Ottoman period. (Rashid Khalidi, Palestinian identity: the construction of modern national consciousness, Columbia University Press, 2009 p.18.)
According to Palestinian author Walid Khalidi: “the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial.”
(“(With reference to Palestinians in Ottoman times) Although proud of their Arab heritage and ancestry, the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial, including the ancient Hebrews and the Canaanites before them.
Acutely aware of the distinctiveness of Palestinian history, the Palestinians saw themselves as the heirs of its rich associations.”) and according to Palestinian anthropologist Ali Qleibo: “in their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture.”
(“Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabateans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and European crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and Mongols, were historical ‘events’ whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes … Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture.”
Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times.(Gibbons, Ann (October 30, 2000).
“Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry”. ScienceNOW. American Academy for the Advancement of Science.. Studies cited are: M. F. Hammer et al. (2000).
“Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes”. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 97 (12): 6769–6774. doi:10.1073/pnas.100115997. PMC 18733. PMID 10801975. and Almut Nebel et al. (2000).
“High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews”. Human Genetics 107 (6): 630–641. doi:10.1007/s004390000426. PMID 11153918.
Another study says; “Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.” “Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim,’The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East,’ American Journal of Human Genetics, November 2001; 69(5): 1095–1112. 10.1086/324070,PMCID: PMC1274378.)
Thanks! I copied most of this comment off into a separate file for future reference. This is nice to have.
You are very welcome. There is a lot of good info on Facebook: Palestine, past, present and future, btw.
End the Unjust Arab Occupation of Jewish Land
NO PALESTINIAN STATE – No land concessions R7.
Imagine that the various people who settled in the United States for the past 300 years decided one day that they one to parcel the United States into an independent State just for them, would the American public go for it. The Answer is absolutely NO.
The situation in Israel today is no different. The Arabs there are not Palestinians, there is no such Arab nation as Palestine or Palestinian people.
Europeans countries today are consisting of numerous people from other countries. Would the Europeans people cede part of their country to set up another State in their midst. The answer is absolutely NO.
Archeological excavations and historical data is the best proof Israel belongs to the Jewish Nation and non-other.
All the Arabs in Israel and surrounding areas are from the various Arab nations, such as Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab nations.
Transfer all Arabs from Israel to Jewish Land and Homes confiscated by Arab Countries.
Prominent PLO Arab says there are no ‘Palestinians’ and no “Palestine”
PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein admitted in a March 31, 1977 interview with a Dutch newspaper Trouw.
“The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism. ”
The Qur’an 17:104 – states the land belongs to the Jewish people
If the historic documents, comments written by eyewitnesses and declarations by the most authoritative Arab scholars are still not enough, let us quote the most important source for Muslim Arabs:
“And thereafter we [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd’.”.
017.104
YUSUFALI: And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, “Dwell securely in the land (of promise)”: but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.
PICKTHAL: And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.
SHAKIR: And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.
– Qur’an 17:104 –
Any sincere Muslim must recognize the Land they call “Palestine” as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by Muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah’s ultimate revelation.
Any building of housing in The Greater Israel is the right and duty of the Israeli government. There is no such a thing as occupied territory. It is the land of Israel for over 4,000 years.
Sequence of historical events, agreements and a non-broken series of treaties and resolutions, as laid out by the San Remo Resolution, the League of Nations and the United Nations, gives the Jewish People title to the city of Jerusalem and the rest of Israel totaling approximately 45,000 square miles, as mandated by the League of Nations in July of 1922. The process began at San Remo, Italy, when the four Principal Allied Powers of World War I – Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan – agreed to create a Jewish national home in what is now the Land of Israel. (You might as well break apart Syria which was mandated at the same time).
YJ Draiman.
PS
20 Years of Research Reveals Jerusalem Belongs to Jews
(IsraelNN.com) Jacques Gauthier, a non-Jewish Canadian lawyer who spent 20 years researching the legal status of Jerusalem, has concluded: “Jerusalem belongs to the Jews, by international law.”.
Gauthier has written a doctoral dissertation on the topic of Jerusalem and its legal history, based on international treaties and resolutions of the past 90 years. The dissertation runs some 1,300 pages, with 3,000 footnotes. Gauthier had to present his thesis to a world-famous Jewish historian and two leading international lawyers – the Jewish one of whom has represented the Palestinian Authority on numerous occasions.
Gauthier’s main point, as summarized by Israpundit editor Ted Belman, is that a non-broken series of treaties and resolutions, as laid out by the San Remo Resolution, the League of Nations and the United Nations, gives the Jewish People title to the city of Jerusalem. The process began at San Remo, Italy, when the four Principal Allied Powers of World War I – Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan – agreed to create a Jewish national home in what is now the Land of Israel.
We must unleash the wrath of G-D against the enemies of Israel and those collaborating with the enemy.
End the Unjust Arab Occupation of Jewish Land
Bible, Zechariah 1:14 Thus says the L-RD of hosts, “I am exceedingly jealous for Jerusalem and Zion.” Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times in the Jewish Bible, NOT once in the Koran. Psalm 135:12 “He gave their land as a heritage to Israel His people.” Thousands of years ago, G-D foretold in Bible the present-day murderous hate for Israel. Psalm 83 They have said, “Come and let us wipe them out as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more. For they have conspired together with one mind; against You they make a covenant”. The Bible makes it clear that the war is against G-D.
http://einshalom.com/archives/57
Justifying Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine by invoking U.S. ethnic cleansing of North America. Brilliant.
Jeremy, I took the time to read and give great thought to what you wrote, please dignify my time and attention by reading the following:
Thomas Ice said it best and by all accounts I give him credit for the following:
INTERNATIONAL LAW AND JERUSALEM
by Thomas Ice
The Bible teaches that God gave to the Jewish people the land of Israel. This is repeated many times throughout the Bible. God’s viewpoint on this matter is what ultimately matters since He will at some point in the future implement His will. If God says something then that settles it, that decree will surely come to pass. However, it is interesting to note that international law is and has always been on the side of the reestablishment of the modern state of Israel. Furthermore, the law also supports the claim that Jerusalem belongs to the Jews and that the Arabs have no legitimate legal claim upon Judaism’s most holy location.
JACQUES PAUL GAUTHIER
Canadian lawyer Jacques Paul Gauthier recently finished a twenty-year project in which this Gentile Christian researched at the University of Geneva political science department and international law school, the legal issues relating to the ownership of Israel and Jerusalem. Gauthier’s PhD thesis was completed in 2007 and is entitled:
“Sovereignty Over The Old City of Jerusalem.” Dr. Gauthier has demonstrated in painstaking detail in his thesis of over 1,200 pages the following conclusion:
After our examination of the principles of international law pertaining to
belligerent occupation, we have concluded that Israel has the right to occupy
the territories under its control since 1967, including East Jerusalem and its
Old City, until a peace treaty is concluded. Since Gauthier’s publication was a PhD thesis, he had to painstakingly document every opinion or conclusion with legal and historical facts. Had the readers of his thesis
not agreed with the information in his work they would not have accepted Gauthier’s thesis. This means that Gauthier’s work is the most authoritative opinion covering the international status of the old city of Jerusalem and the land of Israel. So what is Dr. Gauthier’s argument?
GREAT BRITAIN’S ROLE
Gauthier notes that the Balfour Declaration of November 2, 1917 did not have the status of international law, at least not when issued. However, it did become the official policy of the British government that bound Great Britain to pursue the founding of a future state of Israel and granting them self-determination. The United Kingdom took the next step toward founding the Jewish state when General Allenby captured Jerusalem on December 11, 1917 and then the rest of Palestine (Israel).
On January 3, 1919 Chaim Weizmann, who was the leader and representative of the Zionist Organization on behalf of the Jewish people, met with Emir Feisal, who represented the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz. Included in an agreement that both parties agreed upon was that the Jewish people should get the land west of the Jordan River and that the old city of Jerusalem would be under Jewish control. The Paris Peace Conference began on January 18, 1919 and lasted about six months in which new borders were decided upon for parts of Europe and the Middle East and were given the force of international law. The conference was made up of the victorious Allied powers from World War I. The “Big Four” were made up of theUnited States, Great Britain, France, and Italy. Lord Balfour represented Britain. It was during the summer of 1919 that Arab opposition began to be voiced against the Feisal-
Weizmann agreement. As a result that aspect of the conference stalled and was never agreed upon. Nevertheless, Balfour issued the following statement on August 11, 1919:
“The four great powers are committed to Zionism. And Zionism be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age long traditions, in present needs in future hopes of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land.”3 The Paris Peace Conference ended without a final solution reached concerning the status of Palestine, even though there was much discussion about the matter.
THE SAN REMO CONFERENCE
A meeting to deal specifically with the unfinished business of Palestine, which was to be seen as an extension of the Paris Peace Conference was commenced on April 19, 1920 in San Remo, Italy. It was attended by the four Principal Allied Powers of World War I who were represented by the prime ministers of Britain (David Lloyd George),France (Alexandre Millerand) and Italy (Francesco Nitti) and by Japan’s Ambassador K. Matsui. The San Remo Resolution adopted on April 25, 1920 incorporated the Balfour
Declaration of 1917 issued by the British government. The San Remo resolution and Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, which was adopted at the Paris Peace Conference on April 28, 1919, were the basic documents upon which the British Mandate for the stewardship of Palestine was constructed. It was at San Remo that the Balfour Declaration went from being just a statement of British foreign policy to international law.
The British Mandate was fully implemented upon approval by the Council of the
League of Nations on September 22, 1922. However, when the parties left San Remo in April 1919 the future state of Israel was to be made up of what now constitutes the Kingdom of Jordan, as well as all the land West of the Jordan River. After September 22, 1922 what is now the Kingdom of Jordan was taken away from Palestine and became another Arab nation. This was the beginning of the trend still operative today that Israel needs to give up more land in order to be promised peace. The reality is that
every time Israel gives up land, she experiences even less peace.
THE MANDATE
On July 1, 1920 the British military administration, which had controlled Palestine since December 1917, was replaced by a British civil administration covering all of Palestine on both sides of the Jordan River, with its headquarters in Jerusalem. The Mandate instructed Great Britain that she would oversee Palestine with the goal of the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. At the time of the issuance of the Mandate, it was believed that there were not enough Jews in the land to
establish a nation. Thus, Great Britain was to oversee the immigration of Jews to the land and when there were enough then Palestine would become the national homeland for the Jewish people. However, normally, Britain obstructed the goal of developing a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
As the League of Nations was dissolved in 1946, the United Nations, which was founded in 1945, began to deal with the Palestine issue. The UN General Assembly passed a Partition Resolution (Resolution 181) on November 29, 147. This UN resolution adopted the necessary legal status from the League of Nations needed for Israel to declare her independence on May 14, 1948. Under 181, the land of Palestine was partitioned and part of Palestine was given to the Arabs and the rest was given to Israel, except Jerusalem was to become an international city. Gauthier tells us, “The special international regime for the corpus separatum which was to be established on or
prior to October 1, 1948 was to remain in force for a period of ten years. At the end of that period, ‘the residents of the City shall be . . . free to express by means of a referendum their wishes as to possible modifications of the regime of the City.’” The Arabs rejected resolution 181 and attacked the Jews resulting in a larger land area for Israel when the fighting stopped in 1949. Israel’s war for independence also prevented Jerusalem from becoming an international city. The promised election by October 1959
to determine to whom Jerusalem belonged never took place. There is no doubt that the city would have voted for Israel if an election had taken place. Thus, all of the legal rights to the Old City of Jerusalem belong to Israel and the Jews.
CONCLUSION
Gauthier’s work, which I have only provided a glimpse into, demonstrates that both the land of Israel and the Old City of Jerusalem belong to Israel and the Jews based upon the standards of international law. When commentators appear on the media today and start talking about how Israel is violating international law with their occupation, they are absolutely without any basis in the truth. These advocates for the Arab occupation of Jewish land have no legal basis to stand. However, that does not seem to bother them since they are lawless and many hope through jihad to take over Israel. Most of these spokesmen really do not care about the law, international or
otherwise. The facts are that both the Bible and even international law says that the land of Israel and Jerusalem belong to the Jewish people. The fact that many within the international community know this information means nothing. Today the Gentile nations are in an uproar, while increasingly clamoring for the extermination of the nation and people of Israel. Yet, the hand of God’s providence has restored His people to their land while still primarily in unbelief. We increasingly see the lawless attitudes of the nations constantly on display as they certainly do not care about God’s Word, nor
do they heed the clear mandates of manmade international law. So it will be in the end, as at the beginning and throughout her history, that Israel will have to be saved by the actual hand of God as He interrupts history in order to save His people. Today’s hatred toward Israel is just a warm-up for the real heat of the furnace of the tribulation, from which God will redeem the nation of Israel through the coming of Messiah. Since mankind does not recognize God and His law, nevertheless, He will impose it upon humanity one day. I hoped you gained some insight from this-
Jeremy, when Jesus returns..and He will soon. You can look back at this post ( I won’t be here- I’ll be in Heaven ) and say ” Kelly was right and she cared about my soul- I am praying for you, because I do care. And by the way? Are you related to Leslie Stahl from 60 minutes? I saw a recent report she did on Jerusalem and you sure have similar journalistic styles. :D
Take care and God Bless!
Okay, Kelly, first of all, regarding the theological argument for the creation of Israel and for the occupation, if you actually read the Bible, you will note that Yahweh made a covenant with the descendants of Abraham, that he would be their God, and they would be his people, and he would bring them into the land of Canaan if they obeyed his commandments. And then most of the Tanakh (Old Testament) details how the Hebrews broke their covenant with Yahweh, how the sinned perpetually in all their generations, and how Yahweh warned them again and again that if they did not keep their covenant and obey his commandments, he would cast them out of the land. And then the Bible records how that happened, first to Israel, and then to her wicked sister, Judah (the tribe name from whence the word “Jew” derives). This is really the whole story of the Old Testament, so it’s pretty hard to miss. It never ceases to astonish me the kind of dishonesty and willful ignorance those who resort to the theological argument demonstrate.
The legal argument provided is no more honest. The Balfour Declaration, the San Remo conference, the Covenant of the League of Nations, the League of Nations Mandate… We could take time to examine what those documents actually say, and what they actually mean, but it’s not necessary. The fallacy of this legal argument is that it assumes that the colonial/imperialist powers could rightfully take Palestine from its majority inhabitants, who owned most of the land and who had lived and worked it for countless generations, and hand it over to foreign immigrants who had never set foot in Palestine before. This is an arrogant imperialist and racist argument that has no basis in international law, which recognizes the inalienable right of all peoples to self-determination — the right that was denied to the Arab Palestinians then and which continues to be denied to them by Israel and the U.S. today.
So, Kelly, I am praying for you, too, because I also care about your soul, and since you are obviously religious, I would urge you to take the time to actually READ the Bible and see what it says, and to understand the Commandments given to Moses on Mt. Sinai by Yahweh, which Israel violates daily with its murderous covetousness, as it has done perpetually since it first came into existence through the act of war and violence and ethnic cleansing of Palestine of 750,000 of its Arab inhabitants.
“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” — 2 Thessalonians, 2:9-11
“And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” — John 8:32
Take care.
I keep running into this same argument and refuting on it similarly. But you did it much better, so I will copy your comment off and use it in the future while sourcing it to you. Thanks.
As biased as expected. Your kind gave Hitler Czechoslovakia. Your kind would have let central America fall to communism. Your kind will see 6 million Jews dead in the name of “justice” and a Palestinian state- a people that never existed, BTW, before the 20th century. You choose what you believe but seriously man, cut the BS. Come live in ramallah for a year. Then live in Tel aviv for a year. Maybe then you’ll have the right to talk, when you see for real that it’s not black and white, and both sides are at fault here. In the meantime you can relax in your comfortable home which is probably built on land stolen from Indians or other native people. you want a just world? try mars.
Bla, bla, bla. Let me know when you’re ready to have a discussion of the facts.
Really mature.. you definitely made yourself look professional and unbiased there
Blah, blah. You can let me know when you’re ready to have a discussion of the facts, as well.
Doesn’t matter, you have the mentality like a child
I’m not the one unwilling/incapable of having a discussion of the facts. My invitation to do so remains open.
I was taking your write-up quite seriously before I saw your blah-blah posts.
“As political analyst Noam Chomsky extensively documents in his epic analysis ‘The Fateful Triangle'”…
And here I thought Chomsky was a linguist! Thank you for clearing that up for me!
“The truth is that from the start of the cease-fire in June until November 4, Hamas fired no rockets, despite numerous provocations from Israel…”
Then I must have imagined the 40 something rockets being shot to Israeli territory a copule of days prior to Cast Lead and as soon as the cease fire ended. Again, thanks for the clear up! I’ll be sure to listen more carefully to the liberal, free media of Israel from now own.
(Oh, and by the way, by “thousands of rockets” prior to Cast Lead, I do assume they mean the rockets being shot to southern Israel since 2000, with little to no response from the Israeli side, But it may be that liberal media again, spreading its lies and propaganda!)
Thank you for sharing that information with us. There is some great stuff there.
No Spring in Palestine
Despite the uptick in violence, it’s going to require something truly nasty or spectacular to put the Israeli-Palestinian issue on the front burner again.
BY AARON DAVID MILLER | MARCH 24, 2011
Just when you thought the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was in the deep freezer, things are getting hot again. Hamas and Israel are back at each others’ throats; and for the first time in four years, there’s been a terror attack in Jerusalem, killing one Israeli. The bombing capped a week of Israeli-Palestinian confrontation, which resulted in a number of civilian deaths in Gaza. If I didn’t know any better, I’d think that Israelis and Palestinians watching the historic changes in the Arab World just can’t stand not to be the center of attention.
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But I do know better. And this time around, precisely because of those transformative changes, it’s going to take something truly big — either nasty or spectacular — to put the Palestinian issue back on center stage. Because right now, despite the loss of life on both sides, it’s still old hat. And here’s why:
If the onset of the Arab spring (Egypt, Tunisia) and Arab winter (Bahrain, Libya, Yemen) suggest anything, it is that priorities have shifted away from external reference points — Israel and the United States — to the more authentic forces of internal processes of political change. I say this fully aware of the Libyan exception, where the United States and the international community is very much in the picture.
Something truly profound is playing out in Arab capitals and countrysides: a process of ownership, the regaining of control over the Arab story (and future) by Arabs themselves. And this process of self-determination will continue to play out for years to come, affecting those Arab polities which to date have largely escaped significant change. Colonialists and Zionists are unlikely to figure as prominently in the Arab story — either as an excuse or justification.
The debate over the centrality of the Palestinian issue to regional stability and to U.S. interests has been argued in hot and heavy fashion for years. Proponents of centrality have argued that there’s no issue more resonant or more emotional in Arab politics; none more threatening to the viability of Israel or morally unfair to Palestinians; and certainly none more likely to radicalize Arabs and Muslims around the world.
Others have argued the opposite: that the sources of instability are deeper and broader, including turmoil within Islam, the Iranian challenge, a democracy deficit, and authoritarian regimes and extractive leaders who have bilked their public for years and kept them bottled up in a kind of Nasser time warp. Instead, they argue, the Palestinian issue has been used to distract and divert attention from meaningful reforms — a cruel deceit to keep autocrats in power.
12NEXT Save big when you subscribe to FP. Uriel Sinai/Getty images
Aaron David Miller is a public policy scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars and former advisor to Republican and Democratic secretaries of state. His forthcoming book is Can America Have Another Great President?
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VSEST
10:42 PM ET
March 24, 2011
Is this coinsidence?
This news from March 23th on http://justworldnews.org/archives/004183.html about one brave assassin and this article’s author could not be coincidence. No wonder that Mr. Miller would like the world/Arabs to forget about Palestine and his client.
REPLY YJ DRAIMAN
11:58 PM ET
March 24, 2011
YJ Draiman for Mayor of LA said…
Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict
Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle East situation; these were compiled by a Christian university professor. It makes sense and it’s not slanted. Jew and non-Jew –it doesn’t matter. Thank You.
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E., the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugeegroup in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples’ lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab – Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians.
There is only one Jewish nation.
The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost.
Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. The P.L.O.’s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
18. The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
January 2, 2011 6:08 AM
YJ Draiman for Mayor of LA
REPLY YJ DRAIMAN
11:59 PM ET
March 24, 2011
Moral and ethical bankruptcy
Moral and ethical bankruptcy
Americans are finding a grotesque echo in the moral – ethical bankruptcy and worse of a substantial sector of American society.
The “moral depravity” of “the Arabs” who kill innocent civilians. It is more than moral depravity. It is a culture that teaches, educates and breeds hate toward other societies that are not like them as they say “infidels”.
There is no way this situation should be handled with kid gloves – when a poison strikes your body, you remove it and destroy it completely, leaving no trace of such poison.
History has shown that these types of atrocities and acts of barbarism have increased in the past half a century and getting worse by the day.
With today’s advancement in technology and telecommunications, the world has shrunk, events on the other side of the world affect everybody (like the Japanese Nuclear reactor fallout etc.) it affects our health our economy brings fear and uncertainty to our lives.
The financial crisis we are facing today is the price we pay for years of neglect and government abuse of power.
Is today’s society heading toward annihilation, you be the judge?
YJ Draiman
Every time there is a terrorist act, Israel should vacate an Arab village and raze it.
REPLY YJ DRAIMAN
12:00 AM ET
March 25, 2011
“Israel’s Disproportionate Restraint.”
“Israel’s Disproportionate Restraint.”
Israel is guilty of anything it’s of disproportionate restraint.
Israel has the right and obligation to defend its citizens
The brutal slaughter of a family of 5 in Itamar just shows that we are dealing with a barbaric mentality.
Add to it the bomb at a bus stop in Jerusalem.
The daily launching of rockets from Gaza against civilian population and schools.
No country and government that cares about its citizens would tolerate such atrocities.
Terror should be handled in the following manner. When a poison strikes the human body, the only way to address it, is to remove it and destroy it completely.
It is a known fact that any country if attacked, its citizens kidnapped, rocket bombardment on a daily basis.
Has the right and obligation to defend its citizens.
It is sad that innocent civilians are hurt, but that is the cost of war and conflict.
Any government and its citizen who do not resist terrorism and let terrorist organization entrench themselves in their country and utilize those countries as bases of armed terrorism against a neighboring country. Eventually pays the price for permitting such actions.
If you gave the Arab population a vote in Israel and the west bank and Jerusalem the option to vote freely and without intimidation, you would find out, that they would rather be living under Israel’s government. They derive more stability more benefits, pensions, welfare, etc.
If the United States or any other government were to be attacked from across the border on a daily basis, have its citizens kidnapped, rockets launched at them on a daily basis, the citizens would demand that immediate military action be initiated with no holds barred, collateral damage or not. That is the fact of life.
Terrorist and those who support them do not know what peace is, they thrive on violence. That is the only way they control the masses. Any negotiations or compromise only strengthen those terrorist organizations. When a poison strikes the human body, the only way to address it, is to remove it and destroy it completely.
There is no such thing as a “disproportioned response to terror.”
Our problem today is “Israel’s Disproportionate Restraint.”
This puts Israel and its citizens in grave danger.
That is the way the terrorist organizations should be treated.
“Like all sovereign nations, Israel has not only a right, but moreover, an obligation, to ensure the safety and security of her citizens”.
As quoted in a statement “the only time of a chance for peace is, when the Arab mother would love her children more than she hates the Israelis.
The big mistake is that people are missing the economic benefits for Israel and its neighbors. That is if there was a true peace, you take the Israeli Technology and know how, add to it the Arab labor and natural resources – and you have an economic prosperity beyond your widest dreams.
The Qur’an 17:104 – states the land belongs to the Jewish people
Every time there is a terrorist act, Israel should vacate an Arab village and raze it.
YJ Draiman
@ James
October 12, 2010 – 12:20 am
When are you going to provide any evidence of Palestinian suicide bombers? I mean evidence. Not media repetitions of Israeli claims and unsubstantiated unverifiable claims of responsibility which wouldn’t amount to much even if they were authentic.
Evidence – I’m talking about proper investigations and fair trials
Thanks
I wonder how many of those rockets from Gaza were Israeli false flags. Gaza’s crawling with Israeli intel and Israeli collaborators
Fact,#1; ishmael was born out of wedlock, to a bondservant. Isaac was born by Sarah, the wife of Abraham. So the ‘firstborn’ under a promise of God, inherents all of Abrahams land & all.
What never ceases to amaze me is how quickly the Israelis forget their terrorist roots. One simply has to look up groups such as The Irgun, The Stern Gang and The Haganas. These groups practiced and perhaps drew the blue print for modern day terrorism in the middle east. Bombing, shooting, stabbing, beating and kidnapping innocent non-Jews was common place for these 3 groups. The King David hotel bombing is a prime example, 92 innocent people were killed in this terrorist attack. There are thousands of examples of Israeli terror to choose from, from the past to the present day. Israel has never been a “State” of peace. America should never forget The U.S.S. Liberty, the incredible amount of spies Israel sends to America and the fact that they’ve sold Americas military and Technological secrets to China and Russia.
I suggest you look more carefully into the King David Hotel bombing – only a selected wing was blown up. Not the whole thing. That specific wing housed certain British offices and documents that based British restriction of Jewish immigration to Palestine.
So, what, are you trying to justify the act of terrorism?
yup… that’s about what that was right there…
I’ll justify it. It was an attack on a foreign, colonial administration. It was also a military target.
It’s so funny when people like you are trying to justify the terror by making a very silly compare. The same way people like you equalize IDF to Hamas terrorists, ignoring the facts that targets are different. Hamas playing this game very well and knows to manipulate naive people like you and turning you to a tool of Islamic Jihad.
You are right, it is not logical to compare IDF and Hamas terrorism. The IDF commits terrorism on an incomparably greater scale.
it is called collateral damage. and that’s what happens when Hamas’s terrorists use their own civilians to hide their asses while launching rockets towards civilian targets in Israel you dumbass
It is called war crimes. That’s what happens when Israel launches indiscriminate attacks and deliberately targets civilian objects.
The war crime is hiding rockets in civilian areas and either forcing residents to stay in their homes or not notifying them of the risks of living in that area. That is a war crime. Bombing civilian areas that house military equipment while giving notice to those people that the area is going to be targeted is hardly a war crime.
Even Amnesty Int’l has confirmed these charges against Hamas and Amnesty is no friend of Israel by any means.
Actually, Human rights Watch and amnesty International condemned Israel for using Palestinians as human sheilds themselves.
Source? Or is it ‘pulled it out of my butt’ your source?
Years earlier, in a practice ceased by Israel.
Both the UN and Amnesty cleared the IDF of War Crimes. They have however condemned Hamas.
So you have not heard the news yet? http://www.redstate.com/2015/05/27/amnesty-international-hamas-committing-war-crimes-gazans/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4653096,00.html
In your haste to explain yourself, you mistakenly typed “Israel’ when you meant Hamas and its thousands of rockets, each deliberately targeting civilian objects, each a crime under the laws of war. I foresee the retort: but those were just firecrackers. The laws of war make no exception for firecrackers.
You have no gift of foresight.
See, unlike you I am not a hypocrite and have no problem condemning Hamas’s war crimes.
It’s just that I’m American and live under a government that likewise condemns Hamas’s war crimes while supporting the war crimes and terrorism of Israel, which occurs on an incomparably greater scale.
When a country is fighting back against occupation, its self-defense.
Nobody is occupying Gaza but Pals. As for Israel its NOT occupied by anyone but Israelis.
Murdering Jewish teens is not fighting back.
Not a country. And not after its leaders rejected peace offers without so much as a counter-proposal.
Not only not a country, but not even a people –> http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/06/17/top-ten-myths-about-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict/#comment-2594252214
Quoting yourself. Brilliant!
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MythsEnglish2012.pdf
It’s called referring to another comment. Weary of your trolling. Banned.
Neither statement is true.
This is pure terrorism and definitely war crimes in action. Standard IDF.
Jeremy is either a Muslim or a leftist same shit
Hey not all Lefties are Antisemite Hamas Apologists. I’m probably more leftwing than this clown and I think he is full of shit.
The IDF is protecting its people and defending its borders against islamic jihad, which is in fact a crime against innocent people, and has been made holy by muslims. Right now, muslims are committing genocide on the christians and apostates in iraq and syria, on genocidal scale amounting to 250 000 dead and 11 million displaced, lives shattered and traumatised, by muslims seeking to rule the world. Wish that iraq and syria, nigeria and south sudan, kenya and nigeria and, and, and, and, ….. could do the same for their people and country, instead of running away like cowards, or even joining the muslim monster criminals in their jihad on the civilians like in Nigeria. The death tolls that Israel raises are minor in comparison to the worldwide death tolls brought about daily by muslims.
More than 2/3rds of the murdered, were civilians.
Difference is that Israel outlawed those terrorists. In Gaza they are the government.
“spies Israel sends to America ”
Everyone spies on everyone. It’s been that way since since the iron age. Deal with it!
I loved #8 – looks like you needed something to complete ten myths…
Seriously, it also looks like you choose the bits of the bible that suit your cause. You only quoted the promise itself,the Hebrews being sinful, but never any act of repentant. I don’t even I am qualified to debate this, but at least I can read the Hebrew text.
I was also wondering about your statistics – you claimed 7% of the land was Jewish owned land, but that doesn’t mean 93% of the land was Arab owned land. Hey, what percent was German owned in 1922?
You seem to be highly motivated and very interested – but all your conclusions, no matter what kind of criticism can be made against them, just don’t give Israel and Israelis much prospective for any future.
Suppose I agree with you, what than?
“it also looks like you choose the bits of the bible that suit your cause”
Precisely my point about what Christian Zionists so ignorantly or dishonestly do.
“ou claimed 7% of the land was Jewish owned land, but that doesn’t mean 93% of the land was Arab owned land”
I didn’t say 93% was owned by Arabs. Jews owned 7%. According to UNSCOP, Arabs were in possession of 85%. Arabs owned more land in every single district, including Jaffa.
“Suppose I agree with you, what than?”
Then we work together to end U.S.-Israeli rejectionism so that the occupation may end and the two-state solution may be implemented.
But numerous Israeli governments have agreed to 1967 border based solution. They have showed in action that they can and are willing to tare down most settlements and compensate Palestniens for land loss.
We’re still waiting here to hear Arab and Palestinien leaders say that they recognize a Jewish state and declare an end to the conflict.
You’re kidding, right? Israel’s policy has always been explicitly rejectionist.
“two-state solution may be implemented” Tell that to Arafat and Abbas who always find the reason to reject it. And regardin “stop occupation”… A. It is not for you to tell if “Judea and Samaria” are occupied lands or not. And if you think by giving lands to Arabs it will stop violence then let me give you and example of GAZA, It is not “occupied” since 2005, after IDF left it it turned into Military Base for Terror, a puppet of Iran.
Nonsense. The Palestinians have long accepted the two-state solution while Israel rejects it.
True. It is not a matter of opinion. Under international law, all of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is “occupied Palestinian territory”.
It isn’t possible for Israel to “give” Arabs land that is already their own.
Israel remained in control of Gaza’s borders, airspace, and territorial waters and implemented an illegal blockade to punish the civilian population. It remains the occupying power under international law.
Clearly, either your grasp on reality is very tenuous, or you have no moral qualms about deliberately spreading lies.
“Nonsense. The Palestinians have long accepted the two-state solution while Israel rejects it.”
Really??? Explain to me again how the second intifada started, with Arafat walking away from a deal far more generous than anything the Arabs deserved.
“Israel remained in control of Gaza’s borders, airspace, and territorial waters and implemented an illegal blockade to punish the civilian population. It remains the occupying power under international law.”
Israel controls ITS OWN border with Gaza. Egypt controls the other border. Just like America controls its side of the US-Mexico border (or at least we try to). This is normal, throughout the world. Countries control who enters or leaves through their borders.
The blockade was imposed a couple years after Israel withdrew, not immediately, and it was imposed due to terrorist attacks against Israel. It was deemed entirely legal, even by the grossly Antisemitic UN. That blockade does not prevent food or consumer goods from entering, only weapons. That seems like a pretty reasonable thing, given the history of terrorist attacks from Gaza into Israel.
More counterfeit jew lies.
The dirty jew is adept at lying.
Yes, the Palestinians have really long accepted the two-state solution while Israel rejects it.
How bizaarre to describe Israel’s demands that the Palestinians acquiesce to handing over more of their land to Israel as “generous”.
Egypt is certainly complicit in Israel’s collective punishment of the civilian population of Gaza, but, in fact, Israel patrols that border, as well. It’s called the Philadelphia Corridor.
Again, Israel remains the occupying power in Gaza under international law.
False. The blockade policy was merely escalated in 2006 after Hamas won elections. It didn’t begin then.
This is not what the evidence tells us. Quite the contrary, it is evident the purpose from the start was to collectively punish the civilian population for voting the wrong way.
“It’s like an appointment with a dietician. The Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won’t die.” — Dov Weisglass, senior advisor to Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, in a meeting of senior officials to discuss what policy Israel should take after Hamas’s election victory in January 2006.
False. The authoritative judgment of the UN — along with the ICRC, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, B’Tselem, Gisha, etc. — is that the blockade is illegal. You are referring to the Palmer report, which was led by two politicians operating who explicitly pointed out that they had no mandate to issue any legal judgments and who stated that their own opinion was non-authoritative, and whose report is rife with factual errors and logical fallacies.
False. Israel blocks many consumer goods from being importd and/or exported.
“It isn’t possible for Israel to “give” Arabs land that is already their own.”
That is technically correct, but what a lawyer would call, “non-responsive”. Israel has a perfect legal right to keep the “West Bank” if they choose. That land NEVER legally belonged to any Arab government in the last thousand years.
If you think Jordan’s conquest gave the Arabs legal right to the land, think again. The language that the Arabs themselves insisted upon states,
“The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate “settlement of the Palestine question”.”
So they did not claim legal right to the land when they conquered it in the 1948 invasion.
Um… No. All of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is under international law occupied Palestine.
I do not think that, no. This is not by any means where the Palestinians’ right to their own land came from.
You are either dangerously ignorant, or deliberately promoting falsehoods. It is true that Jews only owned about 7% of the land by 1948. Arabs only owned about 11%. The rest was GOVERNMENT owned land.
Since the mandatory government, acting under the auspices of the Mandate for Palestine, was obliged to turn that land over tot he JEWISH government, that means that Jews, between private and government ownership, held 89% of the land.
Another counterfeit jew sticking their oversized nosed into the discussion and posting falsehoods.
Why don’t all those counterfeit jews squatting on Palestinian land move home to Mother Russia and the Caucasus bordering Mongolia.
After all, that is where you thieving, greasy, hooked nosed tramps came from.
False. The facts are as I’ve stated them. See here for more info on land ownership:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
Nonsense.
Lmfao. Your only source us your own site? You sir, are nothing but a piss poor joke.
If you’d bothered to look, you’d have seen that the essay is well documented. You are welcome to check my sources that I’ve provided to you.
And Australia was english at some point….so what?
SO does anyone have any evidence that there is such a thing as Palestinian suicide bombers, suicide bombings perpetrated by Palestinians. I mean apart from repetition of Israeli claims in the corporate media and alleged unsubstantiated claims of responsibility and intent from individuals and groups. Let’s see some real evidence eg fornsics, thanks
This article is an excellent example of the racist propaganda against the Jews. It tried to perpetuate the myth that the Palestinian Arabs are a bunch of freedom fighters and the Jews are a bunch of land grabbers who stole Tel-Aviv & Jerusalem. It tries to justify the Arab’s genocidal wars against the Jews and the Arab’s 66 year attempt to occupy Israel.
Just like those in the who accused France of invading & occupying the German city of Paris in 1944 and stealing it from the Nazis, the anti-Semites of today accuse Israel of stealing Israel.
While Israel holds the best human rights record of any nation in the region, the Arab nations, by contrast, keep the Palestinian in their countries under a state of apartheid. While Israel supports a 2-state solution and has done so since 1937 (Peel Commission), the Arab Leadership had opposed it tooth-and-nail during all those decades.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JBucknoff/status/437026433597448192/photo/1?screen_name=JBucknoff
You aren’t presenting an argument. Your charges of “anti-Semitism” and references to the Nazis is empty and ineffectual rhetoric. You are simply denying that the Palestinians are struggling to exercise their rights in the face of Israeli occupation and oppression. You are simply denying that 750,000 Arabs were ethnically cleansed from Palestine so that the “Jewish state” of Israel could be created. You are simply denying that the Jewish community owned less than 7% of the land in Palestine while the majority Arab population owned most of it.
In short, your comment simply illustrates your own intellectual dishonesty and extraordinary willful ignorance.
Miko Peled is an IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) veteran. His grandfather signed the Israeli Declaration of Independence and his father was a Six Days War General.
He has lost a young niece in this conflict so I believe his entrenched view on this issue should carry more weight than most. He was well indoctrinated into the Zionist cause and has had to unlearn and then relearn the truth.
“The truth lays in the personal story, not in the national narrative.” ~Miko Peled
2 ten minute lectures. Please watch…………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCqHcNaw8uU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcWRWIksY7M
Let’s say Israel did everything you think they should do. How will that “cure” antisemitism which is increasingly prevalent in Europe, Asia, Latin America, North Africa, etc.? Where can the Jews go should another Hitler arise?
To whom are you directing your question? And what is the logic behind it? E.g., there would still be anti-Semitism in the world if Israel stopped violating international law; therefore Israel ought to just go on with its criminal policies?
Arabs violate human rights and international laws daily, i do not see Christians or Jews use violence against them in Europe. And your opinion is based by one sided twisted information, people like you are the reason of Anti-Semitism, by spreading lies that Arabs are feeding you with. Because the simple fact is that you support Racism, “Palestinians” not just killing civilians in Israel, but declared openly, there won’t be any any single Jew living inside their border, while all the settlements and houses Israel built, they share with Arabs. The fact is that 1.6 Million Arabs living inside Israel with equal rights.
You are welcome to point out any error in fact or logic on my part. I’ll merely observe that despite your accusations, you haven’t done so.
Jews living in illegally constructed settlements should, of course, be welcome to remain if they would prefer to live in Palestine than Israel.
There is, of course, institutional discrimination against Arab Israelis.
your claims have no basis in reality. Israeli Arabs have all the rights jews and people of other faiths in Israel have. how can you lie like this knowingly? don’t you have any honest integrity? professional ethics?
I repeat: There is institutionalized discrimination against Arab Israelis.
“In the previous Knesset, we saw many anti-Arab legislative initiatives, some of which received broad support and, unfortunately, led to new discriminatory laws.” — http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152
“Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory” — The Or Commission, http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/6677
“New Israeli laws will increase discrimination against Arabs, critics say: One legalizes ‘admissions committees’ in towns to vet would-be residents on their social ‘suitability.’ The other imposes fines for commemorating Nakba Day, seen as a protest of Israel’s independence.” — http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/24/world/la-fg-israel-arab-laws-20110324
What do u think the US Gov’t would do if suddenly all across the 13 Ex-Confederate states we faced huge mass demos. protesting the Rebel defeat in 1865 and calling for the end of Union again ? No Nat’l state is going to allow those within it to openly advocate its violent demise. That’s called treason look it up dipshit!
It’s called racism. Look it up.
Today, Jews follow a number of different customs in remembrance of their fallen Temple. When Jews pray, they pray toward Jerusalem. Within the daily liturgy, there are numerous calls for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Temple. During the week, after meals, Jews recite a grace,
which includes the recitation of Psalm 137 (“If I forget thee, O
Jerusalem…”).[5] At the end of a wedding ceremony, the groom breaks a glass,
which signifies the Jewish people’s continued mourning over the Temple’s
destruction. In addition, many have the custom of leaving a wall in their home
unfinished in remembrance of the destruction. All of these customs play a
significant part in the Jewish connection to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, which former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert stated “represents the purist expression of all that Jews prayed for, dreamed of, cried for, and died for in the two thousand years since the destruction of the Second Temple.”[6] In addition to the customs and ideology, the Jewish connection to the Land of Israel and Jerusalem is internationally recognized.[7]
ISLAMIC LITERATURE AND THE TEMPLE MOUNT
Classic Islamic literature also recognizes the existence of a Jewish Temple and its importance to Judaism.
This makes Palestinian Temple Denial all the more puzzling.
In Sura 17:1 of the Koran, the “Farthest Mosque” is called the al-masjid al-Aqsa. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn,[8] a well-respected Sunni exegesis of the Koran from the 15th and 16th centuries, notes that the “Farthest Mosque” is a reference to the Bayt al-Maqdis of Jerusalem.[9] In Hebrew, the Jewish Temple is often referred to as the Beyt Ha-Miqdash, nearly identical to the Arabic term. In the commentary of Abdullah Ibn Omar al-Baydawi, who authored several prominent theological works in the 13th century, the masjid is referred to as the Bayt al-Maqdis because during Muhammad’s time no mosque existed in Jerusalem.[10] Koranic historian and commentator, Abu Jafar Muhammad al-Tabari, who chronicled the seventh century Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, wrote that one day when Umar finished praying, he went to the place where “the Romans buried the Temple [bayt al-maqdis] at the time of the sons of Israel.”[11] In addition, eleventh century historian Muhammad Ibn Ahmad al-Maqdisi and fourteenth century Iranian religious scholar Hamdallah al-Mustawfi acknowledged that the al-Aqsa Mosque was built on top of Solomon’s Temple.[12]
This is a small sample of the Islamic literature attesting to the Jewish connection to the Temple Mount. Innumerable other writings from other faiths attest to this fact, as well.
Link to 1925 Waqf Temple Mount Guide noting that the First and Second Jewish Temples were located on the Temple Mount
http://www.templeinstitute.org/1925-wakf-temple-mount-guide.pdf
Over a million Jewish people and their children were expelled from Arab countries and their assets confiscated including 120,440 sq. km of land.
It is interesting to note, that Jordan is a country that never existed in history before WWI and nobody is contesting its legitimacy or territorial sovereignty and control.
The same powers that established 21 Arab States plus Jordan after WWI, established the State of Israel based on the Balfour Declaration and the San Remo Treaty of 1920 which was confirmed by the 1920 Treaty of Sevres..
On the other hand, Israel and its Jewish people have over 4,000 years of
history.
Many nations and people are questioning Israel’s control of its liberated territory. No one is mentioning that the Arab countries had ejected about a million Jewish people and their children from their countries, confiscated their assets, businesses, homes and Real estate, over 650,00 Jewish people and their children of these expelled Jewish people were resettled in Greater Israel. The Land the Arab countries confiscated from the Jewish people 120,400 sq. km. or 75,000 sq. miles, which is over 5-6 times the size of Israel, and its value today is the trillions of dollars.
Transfer the Arab-Palestinians to the Jewish owned land in Arab countries is a good solution.
Let the 21 Arab countries resettle the Arab Palestinians in the land they confiscated from the Jews which is 5-6 times the size of Israel (120,440 sq. km.). Provide them with funds they confiscated from the million Jewish people they expelled and let them build an economy, This will benefit both the Arab-Palestinians and the hosting countries, The other alternative is relocate the Arab-Palestinians to Jordan, (originally land allocated for the Jewish people) which is already 80% Arab-Palestinians, and give them funds to relocate and build an economy. This will solve the Arab-Palestinians refugee problem once and for all. It will also reduce hostility and strife in the region.
Christians and Muslims do not have equal rights in Israel. Heck, Non-White Jews don’t have equal rights with the European Jews in Israel. Israel is built on the basis of institutionalized racism.
As Professor Stephen
Schwebel, former judge on the Hague’s
International Court of Justice notes:
The Palestinian claim to sovereignty over east Jerusalem under the principle of self-determination of peoples cannot supersede the Jewish right to self-determination in Jerusalem. While Arabs constituted an ethnic majority only in
the artificial entity of “East Jerusalem” created by Jordan’s illegal division of the city, the armistice lines forming this artificial entity were never intended to determine the borders of, or political sovereignty over, the city. Moreover, Jews constituted the majority ethnic group in unified Jerusalem both in the century before Jordan’s invasion, and since 1967 (the exception being during Jordan’s illegal occupation).
Sir Elihu Lauterpacht, an international legal expert, scholar and director emeritus of the Lauterpacht Centre for International Law at the University of Cambridge, details the legal justification for Israel’s sovereignty in east Jerusalem. According to the scholar, “Jordan’s occupation of
the Old City–and indeed of the whole of the area west of the Jordan river
entirely lacked legal justification” and was simply a “de facto occupation
protected by the Armistice Agreement.” This occupation ended as a result of
“legitimate measures” of self defense by Israel, thereby opening the way for Israel as “a lawful occupant” to fill a sovereignty vacuum left by Britain’s withdrawal from the territory in 1948.
furthermore:
A state acting in lawful exercise of its right of self-defense may seize and occupy foreign territory as long as such seizure and occupation are necessary to its self-defense……Where the prior holder of territory had seized that territory unlawfully, the state which subsequently takes that territory in the lawful exercise of self-defense has, against that prior holder, better title.
As Schwebel explains, “Jordan’s seizure [in 1948] and subsequent annexation of the West Bank and the old city of Jerusalem were unlawful,” arising as they did from an aggressive act. Jordan therefore had no valid title to east Jerusalem. When Jordanian forces attacked Jerusalem in 1967, Israeli forces, acting in self defense, repelled Jordanian forces from territory Jordan was illegitimately occupying. Schwebel maintains that in comparison to Jordan, “Israeli title in old (east) Jerusalem is superior.” And in comparison to the UN, which never asserted sovereignty over Jerusalem and allowed its recommendation of a corpus separatum to lapse and die, he sees Israel’s claim to Jerusalem as similarly superior.
Indeed, the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination cannot supersede the right of the Jewish people to self-determination. The converse is equally true.
How remarkable, to cite the UN in support of the argument that all of Jerusalem is legally Israeli territory. How remarkable, given the fact that the UN has consistently and repeatedly condemned Israel’s annexation measures as illegal, null and void under international law. This is completely uncontroversial, a universal consensus accepted by every country on the planet apart from Israel itself.
Palestinians within Israel and supposedly have full ciizenship, do not have full and equal rights with Israeli Jews. That is why Israel is called an apartheid state.
I live in Israel and i know better what kind of rights they have, they actually have more benefits and pay way less for living in Israel rather than any common Israeli with other nationality.
So all the human rights organizations are liars? All the laws collected that are different for Palestinian-Israelis are illusions.
Hey, I’ve lived in Israel too. You know nothing about Palestinians or what they go through.
You sound like a southern white plantation owner telling people how great the darkies have it under slavery.
You live in Israel, but unless you are Palestinian living in Israel, then no, you don’t know better. I can list a lot of laws that codify the apartheid against Palestinian Arabs in israel. No, they do not get more benefits and pay less for living in Israel. That’s nonsense.
I’ve lived there too. And you are very wrong.
Maybe you lived in the wrong part of Israel isolated from Reality. What i know is that Arabs have more benefits rather than any regular Israelis.
Well, let’s see, I’ve lived in Nazareth, Jerusalem, Haifa. Which part of Israel is the “right” part? And Arabs aren’t “regular” Israelis? That right there shows, at least, the apartheid mentality.
Pray tell, what are these special benefits? They can’t bring their spouses into Israel, but Jewish Israelis can. They can’t buy land, Jewish Israelis can.
There are separate roads for Jews and Arabs. Separate license plates so police can tell who is who. Guess who get stopped more?
There are pages and pages of special laws that separate Arab rights from Jewish ones…inside Israel, not just the Occupied Territories.
Educate yourself: https://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/the-laws-that-enshrine-israel-as-a-racist-state/
http://imeu.org/article/is-israel-an-apartheid-state?utm_content=bufferf54b1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Citizenship_and_Entry_Law
Excellent references. The first one is new and valuable to me. Thanks!
Prove it.
Are the Israelis the only country which violates international law, Jeremy? You are being very selective. The fact is there are dozens of countries with far worse human rights violations that Israel.
No, of course it is not, but for you to suggest we should not criticize Israel’s violations of international law since there are other states whose violations are arguably even worse is sheer intellectual and moral cowardice.
I always thought Bavaria should have been annexed as “Israel.” Yes, I am joking but not entirely unseriously :-)
Actually, you’re not alone in thinking that.
Maybe people would stop being “antisemitic” if the jews will start behaving in a more human way. Anyway, I dont think there is so much antisemitism as you say.
I suggest the US, since the seem to be so in favour of the zionists, could offer some of their territory (plenty of space no?)
I’m not a Zionist and question the Israeli state. Your ignorance about antisemitism and your racial clumping of the Israeli state with not only all Israeli people but all Jews is probably, ironically, the best argument for a “Jewish state” that I have ever heard. Thanks for the reminder of how pervasive antisemitism really is.
I agree with you.
Antisemitism has nothing to do with criticizing Israel’s oppression in Palestine, except the fact that such a psychopathic attitude had been demonstrated only by the most hated dictators in the history.
I am a Muslim and I don’t care if you are a Jew or Muslim or Christian. The only thing that matters is whether you are an asshole or not. Until the Jews from Israel and other countries start treating other human beings in this way, the antisemitic sentiment will probably not go away. This can be compared a with the present anti-Muslim sentiment in the west, which won’t go away until the Muslims start behaving like humans.
“Maybe people would stop being “antisemitic” if the jews will start behaving in a more human way” Classic example of an antisemitic statement. Jews aren’t even human to these creeps.
Dirty, dirty jews.
The bible was written by man, many hundreds of years after the so called events occurred, it is not a text to be trusted as fact (It is not a primary source, and therefore dubious, plus it has been rewritten too many times for it to be true to the original translation). Man wants power and land and will use religion to obtain whatever they want. All peoples no matter what faith have the right to live together peacefully, No one religion or peoples has anymore claim to a land mass than any other, we are all inhabitants of this wonderful planet and should learn to live tolerantly upon it!
Lack of knowledge.
It’s sad that this article makes no mention of the fact, not myth, that six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis in Europe during World War II and that if the state of Israel had not been partitioned in 1947, the remaining Jews in Europe would have had nowhere to go and would likely have suffered the same fate.
AND THAT IS WHERE HUMANITY MADE THE MISTAKE.
Wow, you are a horrible person.
When will the world be rid of the jewish burden? That is the question.
When will the world be rid of the muslim burden? That’s one just as stupid question as yours, shame on you.
Hear, hear!
Please tell me you are not saying “hear hear” to the person who just said humanity made a mistake by not exterminating the Jews, because if so, my enthusiasm for you and this piece just evaporated.
Pipe down Edomite.
It’s sad that you did not read the article. If you had, you would know that Palestine was not partitioned in 1947.
Sorry, I meant the state of Israel was partitioned in 1948, my mistake. Also, I said nothing about forcing Palestinians to suffer, I was just trying to point out that you made no mention of the reason why the state of Israel was a necessity in the first place, that there was nowhere else for the European Jews to go after World War II. And you make no mention of the rampant anti-semitism that was endemic to much of the world prior to, during, and immediately following World War II and which seems to be making a comeback, as shown by comments like those of our friend Pedro Jaime Moldovar here.
Since you do not refute any points made in the article, a reader can only assume that your argument is the following: Israel was necessary and therefore was and to this day is entitled to breaking international law, because many Jews suffered greatly in the past and may possibly suffer again in the future.
Do the former fact and latter speculation somehow provide legal or ethical grounds for historical and ongoing land theft, wars of aggression, apartheid and collective punishment? Do they change any of the facts stated by the article? I don’t think so, and therefore see no reason the Shoah should be brought up. Do the facts cease to be facts on the face of WW II or the many earlier pogroms? Or is it the fear of some indeterminate future disaster that does the trick?
I just thought the article was very one-sided and anti-Semitic, so I wanted to say something to that affect.
Ah, the old standby charge that criticism of Israel is “anti-Semitic”, which its apologists throw around in lieu of arguments.
Alright genius, if you’re so smart, maybe you have a solution to the conflict that you could suggest that would not require the annihilation or displacement of the millions of Jews currently living in the area.
The solution is well known and has the favor of an international consensus, accepted by the Palestinians but rejected by the US and Israel.
Well, what is it?
You already know.
Of course the article is one-sided. It is a response of a single professional to persistent errors in the rhetoric surrounding Palestine in the media. But if you can’t present solid facts or reasoning to counter the statements made without taking the debate to another place altogether, then perhaps it is time to take a step back and acknowledge the author’s work, challenging as it may be.
But how in the blimey is it antisemitic? It goes to great lengths to establish that Jews and Muslims in the region lived as peaceful or friendly neighbours for centuries. This piece does not even come close to using ethnicity as something to attack Israel with, nor does it blame every Jew in the world for Israel. I have some experience with discrimination of my own and am genuinely interested in why you felt it as anti-semitic. When you think about it, which claims in the article or what use of language makes you say that?
“Nor does it blame every Jew in the world for Israel” Yes it does. It says Jews instead of Israelis in one point.
You say “Israel was partitioned in 1948”. If you mean Palestine was partitioned in 1948, no, it was not.
Of course you said nothing about the suffering of the Palestinians, but are you not attempting to justify the means by which Israel was established (namely, the unilateral declaration of its existence by the Zionists and ethnic cleansing of Palestine)?
I do not believe that the Palestinians should be forced to suffer. I neither wrote nor implied that. I also disagree with your assertion that the declaration of the existence of Israel by Zionists was what created the state of Israel or that Zionists are interested in the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. If that were the case, with the military force that Israel possesses, there would be no Palestinians.
Also, several of what you call myths in your article are not at all myths, they are opinions. Opinions are different than myths. For example, your myth #4, that Israel has a “right to exist.” Not a myth, an opinion. You may disagree with this opinion, but that does not make it a myth. I also don’t understand why you put “right to exist” in quotation marks. You make no mention of who you are quoting. Or are you using the quotation marks for their other purpose, to be sarcastic? Like someone sarcastically said that Israel has a right to exist.
Then there is your myth #1, that Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict. This is just inane to mention, since Judaism is a religion and Arabs are an ethnicity. There are even Arab Jews, so of course they were not always in conflict. If you meant that there has not always been conflict between Jews and Muslims, well, of course not. Judaism is more than 1500 years older than Islam, so they could not possibly have always been in conflict.
Myth #3, you keep mentioning Arabs, as if all Arabs are Muslim, or all Arabs are Palestinian. Neither of which is true. There are 22 Arab nations in the Middle East and North Africa, but there are Muslims throughout the world, including Southeast Asia, Europe, and North America. There are also Jews throughout the world, but only one Jewish nation, which for some reason, seems so threatening to people like you.
And speaking of threatening, your myth #5, that the Arab nations threatened Israel with annihilation in 1967 and 1973. What else would you call amassing troops along the border, other than a threat? Were they massing their troops for a tea party? Were they gathering for a basketball tournament? No, they were threatening Israel’s existence. I guess Israel should have just waited around to be invaded instead of preemptively striking. Then there would be no Israel or Palestine, because as has been shown by the surrounding Arab nations’ attitude’s towards Palestinians, they don’t really care about them either.
Myth #6, about the withdrawal from the Sinai peninsula, you make no mention of the fact that Israel’s eventual withdrawal secured lasting peace between Israel and Egypt which continues to this day. Myth #7, again, an opinion, not a myth. Myth #8, also an opinion based on an interpretation of ancient Hebrew text which can be translated in many different ways and has been commented on ad infinitum. Just because you don’t agree with it, doesn’t make it a myth.
Myth #9, Palestinians reject a two-state solution. Would you like some examples? Here are a few examples specifically of Palestinians rejecting the two-state solution: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4534910,00.html, http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.601938, http://www.thetower.org/0593-poll-more-than-70-percent-of-palestinians-reject-two-state-solution/. Then you mentions as part of this myth that Palestinians want to destroy Israel, as being a myth. Well, here are several examples of Palestinians calling for the destruction of Israel: http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=485, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxQS81gXeI, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_K2_0elIqs.
So, what you are calling myths are nothing more than opinions that you disagree with. I guess calling your article “10 opinions that I disagree with” wouldn’t be as provocative, but that seems to be the only intent of your article: to provoke. And I guess it worked, because here I am responding to your provocations. Why not try to be more productive than just provocative. It might be a little more useful and less divisive. But I guess that doesn’t get page views, huh?
If you do not believe the Palestinians should have been made to suffer, why are you playing the apologist for the means by which the state of Israel came into being?
Israel was established by unilateral declaration by the Zionists along with the ethnic cleansing of Palestin of the majority of its Arab inhabitants. These are matters of fact, not opinion, so there is no “disagreeing” with them, only choosing to be ignorant.
On #4: It is not an “opinion” that no state has a “right to exist”. If you read and take the time to understand #4, you’ll see that. Logic truisms are not opinions. (“Right to exist” is in quotation marks obviously because there is no such “right”).
On #1: Your criticism lacks any substance. Congratulations on knowing that “Jew” refers both to people who practice Judaism and to an ethnic group.
On #3: Your remarks again lack any substance. I do not use “Arab” synonymously with “Muslim” in the article. Nor, of course, so I suggest all Arabs are Palestinian. You are being silly.
On #5: Again, in 1967, Israel’s own intelligence assessed that Nasser had no interest in bloodshed. That view was shared by the US’s intelligence community, which noted that Egypt’s military in the Sinai had taken up “defensive” positions. In 1973, again, as I’ve already informed you, Egypt and Syria attacked Israeli forces who were occupying Egyptian and Syrian soil.
On #6: You are right, I do not mention the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. So what? This is irrelevant to my point and doesn’t change the fact that it is a Zionist lie that UNSC 242 calls only for a partial withdrawal from the occupied territories.
On #7: Whether Israel’s use of military force is legitimate self-defense or not is a question of fact, not opinion. Israel’s war crimes, for example, are demonstrable.
On #8: With regard to the Biblical passages I cited, there is no “interpretation” involved. The meaning is perfectly plain. It must take a real effort to read the Bible and not pick up on how the Hebrews continuously violated the covenant with Yahweh. This is a central theme of the book, after all.
On #9: There are Palestinians who reject a two-state solution, certainly. Nevertheless, like I said, the Palestinian leadership has long accepted the two-state solution. Furthermore, Hamas has long said it would accept a long-term truce with the establishment of a Palestinian state alongside Israel on the pre-June ’67 lines.
I fully believe in a free Palestinian state, and feel that Israel’s attacks are completely inhumane, but I’m disturbed at how this article barely acknowledges the extent to which white Christian Europeans (WCE) are at fault for this situation—something to which I believe Alec was initially alluding. The crimes of WCE should not be an excuse for Israel or any other nation, but should still be discussed to provide historical context. This conflict doesn’t exist in a vacuum. WCE imposed their imperialist will throughout the Middle East, and subjected its peoples to all sorts of cruelties. Meanwhile, other WCE were terrorising Jews (treating them not totally unlike the Israelis are treating the Palestinians today) at first destroying their homes and chasing them out of villages, and later with the holocaust. Like or not, these pasts matter, because they provide cultural and psychological insight, which we must understand in order to find a solution that will be beneficial for all of the peoples in the Middle East. For example, the fact that a man was abused as a child does not excuse him for beating his wife, but maybe if he can confront that past with the help of a therapist, he could learn to change his behaviour in the future.
For more than a thousand years my family lived in al Zeeb now named in its roman name Achzeeb.
In 1947 my family doctor was a Jew from Nahariyya who enjoyed visiting us frequently as he filled his car with free fish,citrus fruits and apricots etc.
The architect who designed our house was a Jew who made for me my first stone shot from a carved wood piece and good rubber.
We lived in friendship and happiness with our Jewish neighbors in Nahariyya
Yet 1948 and the English mandate comes to an end Nahariyya hagana
Move your family to Saudi where your bloodline comes from. May Israel finally OBLITERATE Gaza in 2015
So you advocate genocide? Good to know what kind of person you are. And btw, Palestinians are NOT descendents of Saudis. Palestinians are the descendants of every ethnic group that has ever lived in Palestine, from Caananites to Israelites, from Romans to Turks, But DNA studies have proven that Palestinians are most closely related to ancient Israelites, even more than modern Jews. Palestinians are the true inheritors of God’s Promised Land.
As a friend of mine says, “Israel is Jewish fruit, and war the tree.”
An American citizen, not US subject.
Wow, how misinformed can a journalist be??? A response would take hours and pages. I suggest anyone interested in a more balanced view, look elsewhere.
(Israel was not threatened in ’67? are you joking?)
I challenge you to point to even a single error in either fact or logic in the article. Best of luck to you.
It’s impossible to challenge you on “logic” since your logic is something else than anyone elses’ entirely. The fact that you don’t know that makes you seem childish and unprofessional. When it comes to facts; you’ve not produced a single reference/source for you claims….
I’ll simply observe that you’ve conceded you find it “impossible” to find any error in my logic (and, logically, if my logic was in error, it would not be “impossible” to point this out) and likewise have thus far declined to even attempt to point to any error in fact on my part.
I’m not paid to discuss here unlike you, and I do not care enough about this conflict to spend hours on bringing up sources, but I know I’ve seen some in the past on two of these myths.
No sources in this comment by me means that it is as useless and worthless as your whole article, and definitely not worth the read… have a nice day.
I’m being paid to post comments? Well, that is certainly news to me. Who is paying me, pray tell? I’d sure love to know, because it seems the check is getting lost in the mail.
It is highly instructive that you dismiss my article as “worthless” even while acknowledging that you are unable to point to even a single error in fact or logic in it.
the fact that the article uses “arabs” to identify palestinians as a people denies the very existence of the palestinian people. The author justly identifies jewish palestinians and then goes on to define all other palestinians as arabs ( is it a shortcut to ” christian and muslim palestinians”?).
They adopted the arabic language ( like most jewish palestinians I might add) and are not “arabs” ( as if arab is an ethnicity…). Defining palestinians as “arabs” is another way of annihilating their identity. The French and English colonizers used it for the exact same purpose. To justify land grabbing and extermination of the “indigenous” people.
you know the ever so: ” they are not really indigenous since they are arabs and arabs come from saudi arabia or the arabian peninsula so they can’t really lay claim to the land they live on since they are not from there “originally”…. ” and so on and so forth.
i am sorry but it defeats the whole purpose. sad.
PS: i also recognize that the Pan-Arab movement did not help clarify matters but then again we all make mistakes.
I fail to see how identifying Arab Palestinians as Arab Palestinians “denies the very existence of the palestinian people”.
This is plain silliness.
well you don’t identify them as arab palestinians do you? if you fail to see what i am trying to say then all good. anyhow. enjoy the silliness
Yes, I identify Arab Palestinians as Arab Palestinians, silly.
Palestinians Jordanians and Syrians are the same nation, divided by France and England.
Excellent analysis Jeremy, can I ask where I can find references so I can check them?
You’ll have to be specific. Generally speaking, I’d refer you to The Rejection of Palestinian Self-Determination:
http://www.amazon.com/Rejection-Palestinian-Self-Determination-Jeremy-Hammond-ebook/dp/B0059JFL38
It’s fiction in other words. No sources, only self-made opinions without facts.
No, “You’ll have to be specific” about what information you are requesting a source for does not mean “It’s fiction”. It means “You’ll have to be specific.”
Your politeness and self control is worthy of emulation. Right now, I can’t come close.
Lol are you an Arab or a Nazi?
The author, unfortunately, is wrong.
“Myth #1 – Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict in the region.”
From the 600s until the present day, there has been a perpetual state
of conflict between Jews and Muslims in the region. Just because the
Jews were subdued relatively quickly over the course of several decades
in the 600s, it does not follow that conflict did not exist.
That
would be like saying that there was no conflict between slaves and
their white owners in the USA. Even in the absence of violence (because
one side has given up), subjugation is a form of conflict. Conflict was
not isolated to Jewish-Islamic relations, but also between the Jews and
other Arab people such as the Druze (see below).
He
notes that: “After major violence again erupted in 1929, the British
Shaw Commission report noted that “In less than 10 years three serious
attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews. For 80 years before the first
of these attacks there is no recorded instance of any similar
incidents.”” and “at Jewish residents of non-Zionist communities in
Palestine enjoyed friendship with their Arab neighbors.”
I
cannot comment about that specific window, but throughout the larger
history there were similar if not greater outbreaks of violence between
Jews and non-Jews. In Safed alone, there were massacres of Jews at the
hands of Druze in 1660, 1834 and likely in 1838. Were all Arabs and all
Jews at war in the region? Of course not. Some Muslim Arabs helped out
the Jews in these attacks. This, however, does not erase the underlying
atmosphere of conflict which perpetually exploded into acts of full
scale violence.
The
above should not be taken as an endorsement of unprovoked violence –
there should never be any from Jews or Arabs – but it should be seen as
an accurate and fact-based historical account that the author completely
ignored.
No, there was not “a perpetual state” of conflict between Jewish and Arab Palestinians prior to the onset of the Zionist movement.
Your assertion is that one myth is: “Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict in the region.”
I take it that you wish to restrict the term “region” to Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. Fine.
This region, however, cannot be isolated from the greater region. The experience of Jews in the greater region was largely one of subjugation, which I assert is certainly a form of conflict and that perpetual subjugation is tantamount to perpetual conflict.
If you have evidence from a credible source demonstrating that the experience of Jews within these borders differed significantly from the well-documented experiences of Jews throughout the region, then I would be much appreciative if you could provide those.
We should be reminded that upon conquering Jerusalem, Umar applied the laws of subjugation to the Jews (as well as Christians). Thus, the relationship between the local Jews and Arabs can be considered born in the spirit of subjugative conflict.
This is not to deny that perhaps despite this subjugation, Jews and Arabs had “pleasant relationships” – but such relationships should be understood in the context of the relationship between an oppressive and oppressed population. I’m sure Thomas Jefferson had great relationships with his slaves.
Of course, all of this is to say nothing of the historical evidence I provided you regarding the city of Sefad alone.
You have made the claim that it is a myth that Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict in the region. Your argument, of course, demands that 1) the term region be isolated to borders that have existed for less than a century and 2) within those borders, the relationship between Jews and Arabs was atypical for the region. Please provide some sources for this later point.
It is obvious in the context that I am referring specifically to the region known then as Palestine when I say it is a myth that Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict.
I discuss this more fully with references in The Rejection of Palestinian Self-Determination.
The description itself foreshadows your brushing over oh, I don’t know, 1300 years of history.
“the seeds of the continuing conflict in the Middle East between Jews and Arabs were sown during [the rise of the Zionist movement].”
Had you taken the time to do the relevant historical research, you would have seen that the seeds were sown at the time of the advent of Islam. Mohammad and the Jews were in a persistent state of war and following their being subdued, the Jews remained in a state of subjugation throughout the region until the Jewish State emerged.
Saying that the beginning of the Zionist movement sowed the seeds of the conflict is like saying the freeing of the slaves sowed the seeds of the conflict between blacks and whites. It’s absurd.
Again, Arab and Jewish Palestinians generally got along as neighbors prior to the Zionist movement. As the Shaw Commission noted after the 1929 violence that there had been 3 such outbreaks in the last ten years, but none in the 80 years before that. Prior to WWI, “the Jews and Arabs lived side by side if not in amity, at least with tolerance, a quality which today is almost unknown in Palestine.”
1) Is subjugation a form of conflict?
2) Were Jews subjugated in the region prior to the start of the Zionist movement?
No, Jewish Palestinians were not subjugated by Arab Palestinians prior to the start of the Zionist movement.
Are you saying that Jews (and for that matter Christians) were not dhimmis? Did this apply to all three Ottoman districts covering the territory or only some? Can you please detail when and how the Jews were granted equal rights (for example they no longer paid Jizya) and the relevant laws related to dhimmi status instituted by Umar were revoked?
I am saying precisely what I said, that the Jewish Palestinians were not subjugated by the Arab Palestinians. You seem to be confusing the latter with the Turks.
The author, unfortunately, is wrong.
“Myth #1 – Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict in the region.”
From the 600s until the present day, there has been a perpetual state
of conflict between Jews and Muslims in the region. Just because the
Jews were subdued relatively quickly over the course of several decades
in the 600s, it does not follow that conflict did not exist.
That
would be like saying that there was no conflict between slaves and
their white owners in the USA. Even in the absence of violence (because
one side has given up), subjugation is a form of conflict. Conflict was
not isolated to Jewish-Islamic relations, but also between the Jews and
other Arab people such as the Druze (see below).
He
notes that: “After major violence again erupted in 1929, the British
Shaw Commission report noted that “In less than 10 years three serious
attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews. For 80 years before the first
of these attacks there is no recorded instance of any similar
incidents.”” and “at Jewish residents of non-Zionist communities in
Palestine enjoyed friendship with their Arab neighbors.”
I
cannot comment about that specific window, but throughout the larger
history there were similar if not greater outbreaks of violence between
Jews and non-Jews. In Safed alone, there were massacres of Jews at the
hands of Druze in 1660, 1834 and likely in 1838. Were all Arabs and all
Jews at war in the region? Of course not. Some Muslim Arabs helped out
the Jews in these attacks. This, however, does not erase the underlying
atmosphere of conflict which perpetually exploded into acts of full
scale violence.
The
above should not be taken as an endorsement of unprovoked violence –
there should never be any from Jews or Arabs – but it should be seen as
an accurate and fact-based historical account that the author completely
ignored.
Myth # 11: the army that can’t be defeated
I guess you would prefer I had written, “Your comment is devoid of substance”. Same meaning.
It is like a finger pointing to the moon. Do not focus on the finger, or you will miss all the heavenly glory.
Please let me decide as to which is the moon and which is the finger. Your position on the whole thing is so dogmatic and defensive, it reminds me of the right wing politicians of my country. And all of them are hypocrites, of course!
You can see who I was replying to (“Trym Stein Hagen”) if you look again.
Your remark “Please let me decide as to which is the moon and which is the finger” makes no sense. I conclude that, at least in this context, you do not understand the meaning of that Taoist saying.
Likewise, your comment that my “position” is “dogmatic and defensive” makes no sense. I conclude that you are unable to point to any error in fact or logic on my part and thus resort to ad hominem argumentation.
You make no sense… Bla bla bla… Bla bla bla… That is the only way you have learnt to communicate? Now I understand why your so-called ‘ten myths’ makes no sense.
I see you also remain incapable of pointing out any error in fact or logic in the article.
The errors have been laid our for you, kid. You reject all the facts because they don’t support your terroristic worldview. I know you Muslims are well versed in taqiyya, but you’re still failing.
I see you, too, Helter Skelter, have not pointed out even a single error in fact or logic in the article.
Outstanding Article Mr. Hammond, except myth #8, where you mentioned the existence of ” christian Zionists ” and their beliefs, which make no sense since Zionism is a political movement and currant established by jews since ” Hertzel” that aims to create a state for jews around the world. Which means, Christian cannot be Zionist( you can call them maybe pro-israel camp etc..) !!!
Otherwise, Congrats and keep it up .
Thank you. When I use the term “Christian Zionists” I refer to people who are self-described “Christians”. If you wish to argue these people are not true Christians, i.e., they do not live by or follow the teachings of Jesus, you’ll get no argument from me.
http://www.jeremyrhammond.com/2010/07/08/woe-to-you-christian-zionists-hypocrites/
I find myself having to qualify a lot of my statements by saying that when I say Israel, I am talking about the government and its supporters. Much like when I criticize my own government, I am not criticizing myself. It should be stated that there are a lot of Jews, not just in Israel who find the actions of the Israeli government appalling.
Important points.
This article is so filled with inaccuracies and bias that I hardly know where to start.
But there is actually a pretty good historical account at wikipedia.
Wikipedia?
I challenge you to point out even a single error in fact or logic in the article, or to otherwise make a modicum of effort to substantiate your assertion it is “filled with innaccuracies and bias”.
You can start at the beginning (or wherever else you like; anywhere will do).
The Edomites /Ashkenazi’s are on the back foot it seems. The world is awakening to your lies, thievery and deceit.
This will not end well for the wandering gypsy tribe.
#BDS
#APARTHEIDISRAEL
Lol Edomites are Semites dumb-cunt. And if they’re wandering, by being “Anti-Zionist” you’re the one who is saying he wants it to be facilitated. You live on stolen Indian land dude lol
.
It’s always a drag to take the trouble of setting up an account on a strange site, simply because one needs to add an opinion, and it took a good fifteen minutes to jump through all of the hoops. I was led here from youtube.com/watch?v=zmCKZYKsiGM, where this page was provided as evidence, to which a user named “Smiley” responded, “You call that facts?” and then proceeded to discredit the author. (“The guy who wrote this bullshit is not a Historian, is not a someone who actually educated about anything, he describe himself as a ‘independent political analyst’… he makes up his own ‘facts’ and so are you.”)
Ahhh, the mighty Internet, which has made it possible for any ding-a-ling to sit back in his or her easy armchair, and irresponsibly spew forth, in the safety of anonymity.
In this day and age, when the facts have become whatever one wishes them to mean (the world was never an honest place, but unfortunately – unlike the finite space in Gaza – there is always room for greater dishonesty), to prepare such an article as this in itself is a feat of courage. It is a topic that churns the emotions; even some of the intelligent detractors here (a good number certainly more cerebrally-advantaged than “Smiley”), forget the rules for truth and fairness, in the interest of satisfying what they fervently choose to believe.
Time and again, I see Mr. Hammond inviting his critics here to “point to even a single error in either fact or logic in the article.” One or two have done so without eliciting a response (Well, maybe just one… that would be “One,” in his four-year-old comment contending Hamas rockets were indeed fired during the mentioned period, the accuracy for which I can’t speak for without research), but even if a tree is found to be shaky, that does not take away from the value of the forest. (Perhaps I should have instead gone for the finger-moon analogy.) Usually, folks respond by sniffing they don’t have the time, go for the ad hominem, or attempt to sidestep the topic by going down not directly related avenues, such as suicide bombers.
Now imagine dealing with a whole crowd of dogmatic Pharisees who are blind to reason, so overcome by devotion to their cause. A draining effort, to be sure. So here’s the primary point I wished to make: aside from the article’s substance, I was just as impressed with the author’s dedication to counter the ones who care little for backing up their claims with objective facts. (I also like that he met almost every counter-claim head on; unanswered claims endanger a flimsy argument of gettng bolstered.) Still at work, four years later, giving the baseless ones a run for their money. Such committed non-neglect calls for a separate salute.
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Sorry signing up was a hassle. I was under the impression Disqus was a convenient system for users.
You mention one possible item, but I don’t recall anyone ever pointing out any errors in the article.
Thank you very much for taking the time to comment and the salute. I appreciate it.
What a disgusting article, which, apparently, attracts a lot of antisemitic bluebottles…
Yes, it is disgusting how the article shreds numerous myths about the conflict. The truth is just gross.
I agree _completely_ with ‘myth’ #2. The UN did _not_, in fact, create Israel.
I mean, they _did_, of course, create Israel, but that would be…factual.
So we’ll just say that the UN did _not_ create Israel.
Israel was created by….God. Or Magic. Or a freak thunder storm. It just appeared, dude, get over it.
No it is not “factual” that the UN created Israel. That is false.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
The establishment of the state of Israel was announced unilaterally by the Zionist leadership on land in which the Arabs were a majority and owned most of the land, while the Jewish community owned less than 7% of the land in Palestine. The “Jewish state” was made de facto by ethnically cleansing 750,000 Arabs from Palestine.
The fact is on Judea that was renamed to “Palestine” by Romans, was never belong to any “Palestinians”… It was owned by Otoman Empire and later by British. There was never another country but Israel. Stop trying to justify so called minority, because if you look into their roots, they are same Arabs like in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia and you will realize they are not minority at all.. They are just a tool in their “brother’s” hands in order to fight the “West influence”, yes because Israel represent more of West culture rather than Asian.
The linguistic origin of the word “Palestine” is completely irrelevant to the question of ownership of the land in Palestine.
At the time of the Zionist’s unilateral declaration of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948, the Jewish community owned less than 7% of the land in Palestine. The majority Arab community owned most of the land.
Of course, the statement “There was never another country but Israel” is also nonsense.
Ottoman land ownership law – It is time to learn the facts
about Judea and Samaria
To truly understand the status of this territory we have to
first differentiate between the personal and the national. The recent furor
surrounding the government’s decision to declare nearly 1,000 acres at Gvaot in
Gush Etzion “State Land”
is a classic example of the ignorance of history and law that governs most
discussions of Israeli actions beyond the internationally hallowed “Green
Line.” Media headlines around the world screamed about “annexation” and “land
grab,” the Palestinian Authority declared it a “crime” and foreign ministries
around the world have demanded the reversal of the decision. However, few
articles, press releases or communiqués mention the crux of the matter; the
legal and historical status of the land in question.
For many, if not most, around the world, every inch of land
beyond the 1949 armistice lines is automatically Palestinian; a display of
unfamiliarity with history and international law.
To truly understand the status of this territory we have to
first differentiate between the personal and the national.
Of course there is land privately owned by Palestinians in Judea
and Samaria, what many call the “West
Bank” in seeming deference to the Jordanian occupation, which
invented the term as juxtaposition to its eastern bank. These areas, like
privately owned territory anywhere in the world, cannot be touched unless there
is very pressing reason for a government or sovereign power to do so. These areas,
according to Ottoman and British records, constitute no more than a few percent
of the total area, meaning the vast majority is not privately owned.
However, to contend that these territories are “Palestinian”
on a national level is problematic. To claim an area belongs to a particular
nation requires the territory to have belonged to that people, where they held
some sort of sovereignty that was broadly recognized.
All of these criteria have been met historically by the
Jewish people, and none by the Palestinians.
In fact, the Jewish people were provided with national
rights in these territories not just by dint of history and past sovereignty,
but also by residual legal rights contained in the League of Nations Mandate,
which were never canceled and are preserved by the UN Charter, under Article 80
– the famous “Palestine Clause,” that was drafted, in part, to guarantee
continuity with respect to Jewish rights from the League of Nations.
For the past almost 2,000 years, since the destruction of
Jewish sovereignty and expulsion of most of its indigenous people, it remained
an occupied and colonized outpost in the territory of many global and regional
empires.
The Ottomans were the most recent to officially apportion
the territory, in what they referred to as Ottoman Syria, which today
incorporates modern-day Israel, Syria, Jordan and stretching into Iraq. Before
The Ottoman Land Code of 1858, land had largely been owned or passed on by word
of mouth, custom or tradition. Under the Ottomans of the 19th century, land was
apportioned into three main categories: Mulk, Miri and Mawat.
Mulk was the only territory that was privately owned in the
common sense of the term, and as stated before, was only a minimal part of the
whole territory, much of it owned by Jews, who were given the right to own land
under reforms.
Miri was land owned by the sovereign, and individuals could
purchase a deed to cultivate this land and pay a tithe to the government.
Ownership could be transferred only with the approval of the state. Miri rights
could be transferred to heirs, and the land could be sub-let to tenants. In
other words, a similar arrangement to a tenant in an apartment or house as
having rights in the property, but not to the property.
Finally, Mawat was state or unclaimed land, not owned by
private individuals nor largely cultivated. These areas made up almost
two-thirds of all territory.
The area recently declared “State
Land” by the Israeli government, a
process which has been under an intensive ongoing investigation for many years,
is Mawat land. In other words, it has no private status and is not privately
owned.
Many claims to the territory suddenly arose during the
course of the investigation, but all were proven to be unfounded on the basis
of land laws.
Interestingly, it should be clearly understood by those who
deem Judea and Samaria “occupied territory” that according to international law
the occupying power must use the pre-existing land laws as a basis for claims,
exactly as Israel has done in this case, even though Israel’s official position
is that it does not see itself de jure as an occupying power in the legal sense
of the term.
None of these facts are even alluded to in the many reports
surrounding the government’s actions in Gvaot. This is deeply unjust and a
semblance of the relevant background, history and facts would provide the
necessary context for what has been converted into an international incident
where none should exist.
I frequently take foreign visitors and officials on a tour
of Efrat and Gush Etzion and am amazed at the well-meaning ignorance and
preconceived positions that many, even friends of Israel,
hold about the status of this area and wider Judea and Samaria.
Usually, however, by the end of the tour many of these positions have been
debunked and those that I speak with are astonished that there is even another
side to the story, having been assured that the pro-Judea and Samaria
position is based solely on the Bible.
I welcome and even challenge anyone and everyone to come and
see the reality for themselves and learn the history and context of the region,
if only for the sake of intellectual honesty. No one ever lost out through
intellectual curiosity, and I am certain that we can lessen the next furor and
international incident if a greater number of people can be made more familiar
with the facts of history.
When will the world be rid of the jewish cancer.
Ten more twisted lies.
If you think I’ve erred on any point of fact or logic, you are welcome to present an argument.
Pipe down Edomite.
The days of jew duplicity and deceit are nearing an end. The internet will see to that. The Edomite and AshkeNAZI lies are coming out into the wash.
You band of wandering thieves are a disgrace to the human race and your time will come, it is not too far into the future.
This time you won’t just get thrown out of the temple.
“The yellow badge (or yellow patch)”
was first introduced in ISLAMIC countries by the caliph Al-Mutawakkil in 850.
to segregate jews,copts,hindus,Assyrians,Berber from the invading arab population long before the NAZIS.
60% of the jews in israel (“mizrahi jews”)are refugees from ISLAMIC countries.
google:
“yellow badge”
“Hitler and The Mufti Of Jerusalem”
“islamic unit of the Waffen-SS”
“Operation ATLAS Poisoning Tel-Aviv”
“Hurva Synagogue”
“Jewish exodus from Arab lands”
“Hebron pogrom 1517”
“1834 Hebron massacre”
“plunder of Safed 1834”
“Farhud”
“Dhimmi”
“tiberias massacre”
“1945 Tripolitania pogrom”
“Antisemitism in Turkey”
“granada massacre 1066”
“Damascus affair”
“1934 Thrace Pogroms”
“Fez pogrom 1912”
“1948 Anti-Jewish Riots in Oujda and Jerada”
“Shiraz blood libel 1910”
“Aleppo pogroms 1853,1875,1947”
“Jaffa riots 1921”
“Allahdad incident”
“1929 Hebron massacre”
“Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques”
like in nazi germany selling your house to a jew is still punishable by death by the P.A
“Palestinian officer sentenced to death for selling home to a jew”:
jews “old yishuv” were ethnically cleansed from gaza,hebron,Judea&Samaria, leaving behind their homes,shops E.T.C…(their grave stones desecrated, used as pavements and latrines)in many cases the new muslim occupiers didn’t even bother to erase the david star marks engraved by the former jewish owners on the stone gates and they are still visible today to the naked eye.
92 years old arab woman gloats about hebron massacre
http://www.israelnationalnews.Com/News/News.aspx/144262
The final Goal is the end of Israel,but you can’t say that to the world”,says (B)alestinian ambassador Abbas Zaki”
http://www.memritv.Org/clip/en/3130.htm
(B)alestinian Leader Farouq Qaddoumi: “We Supported The Nazis In WWII because they were the enemies of the zionists”
http://www.memritv.Org/clip/en/4075.html
The state of Israel was created by ethnically cleansing 750,000 Arabs from Palestine.
Repeating yourself ad nauseum doesn’t make you correct.
That is true.
And yet the fact remains that the state of Israel was created by ethnically cleansing 750,000 Arabs from Palestine.
You’ve already been thoroughly discredited in the comment section. Lmfao. The fact that you think otherwise shows that you really have no business discussing such matters. You’re a joke. No wonder you had to create a website just to have a job.
This is not in evidence.
Actually, it is. It is evidence of how well organised the hasbara operation is. (Not that anything you have said is wrong.)
My meaning is that this alleged through discrediting never occurred; the facts are as I’ve stated them.
Agreed.
If there was ethnic cleansing why there’s 1.6 million Arabs in Israel? If Israel “Steal lands” from Arabs why Gaza, South Lebanon and Suez were given to Arabs? If there’s “Apartheid” in Israel why there’s black serve in Israeli Army and have equal rights with benefits like Arabs in Israel? Why in Israeli government are Arab representatives who constantly spread hatred and violence inside Israel against the country yet they are still there?
There is no “If”. 750,000 Arabs were ethnically cleansed from Palestine. This is not controversial.
You can’t debate me Jeremy
You’re an amateur ‘anti-zionist’.
Benny Morris
http://www.zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2008/02/israel-and-palestinians-according-to.html
In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181),
They launched Hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community.
But they Lost; and one of the RESULTS was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
[…..]
Most of Palestine’s 700,000 “refugees” fled their homes because of the flail of War (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of Victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.
The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became “refugees” – and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3’s of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country
(which is the usual definition of a refugee)
– was not a “racist crime” but the RESULT of a national conflict and a WAR, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.
There was No Zionist “plan” or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of “ethnic cleansing”.
[…..]
You aren’t doing yourself any favors by citing Benny Morris to dispute the fact that Palestine was ethnically cleansed. In his words:
No.
While trying to destroy the New State and the genocide the Jews in it. Arabs lost a war THEY started.
`
Once again, by the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces from Palestine.
You can’t debate me Jeremy
You’re an amateur ‘anti-zionist’.
You keep citing Yourself as fact/’rebuttal’, when it’s just your Own usual Bigoted Fabrication. I cited the Latest opinion of the MAN who made THEE best case for palestine…
Until Karsh et al made him own up to the truth.
Again and UNREFUTED:
Benny Morris (2008)
http://www.zionism-israel.com/…
In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of Nov 29th, 1947 (No. 181),
They [Palestinian Arabs] launched Hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community.
But They LOST; and one of the RESULTS was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
[…..]
Most of Palestine’s 700,000 “refugees” fled their homes because of the flail of War (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of Victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.
The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became “refugees” – and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3’s of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and Not from their country
(which is the usual definition of a refugee)
– was Not a “racist crime” but the RESULT of a national conflict and a WAR, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs Themselves.
There was No Zionist “plan” or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of “ethnic cleansing”…
SPLASH IV
Here’s Benny Morris on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine:
The facts are as I’ve stated them, your willful ignorance notwithstanding.
No such facts are in evidence. Just repeating these unsupported claims as if they were facts do not make them so. How does one support 750,000 people on this dry, overgrazed land with olives, dates, oranges, sheep, goats, chicken and fish? The reason the Bedouins did not stay in one place too long was to prevent exceeding the local carrying capacities for their grazing animals.
How does one dispose of 700,000 bodies so that only 50,000 remained behind in the internment camps to be refused assimilation by their Arab neighbors until Israel was liberated from Zionist control?
It is true that the Romans ethnically cleansed the Judeans from Judea and used Judean booty from the destruction of the 2nd Temple and perhaps 100,000 Judean slaves to build the Colosseum in Rome. Rome always referred to Roman Judea as Palestine, before, during, and after its conquest by the enlightened Hellenistic Greeks under Alexander the Great and the unenlightened Romans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colosseum
It is also true that the Turks liquidated as many as 1.5M Christian Greeks, 1.25M Christian Armenians and 750,000 Assyrians from the time of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI through the emergence of the Young Turks. Many of the rest fled to Lebanon, with some spilling over into northern Palestine. However, we wouldn’t want to double-count those Christians who escaped Turkish genocide to Palestine as Christian and Muslim Arabs with permanent residence in Palestine who were allegedly ethnically cleansed from Palestine by the Jews during the fight with the attacking Arab states for the existence of the state of Israel but in reality fled in fear of false rumors that the Jews were doing to them what the Ottoman Turks had done to the Jews of Hebron in mid-1800s and the Turks had done to the Christians in the early 1900s.
http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/center-study-genocide-conflict-resolution-and-human-rights/genocide-ottoman-greeks-1914-1923
It is true that the Romans ethnically cleansed the Judeans from Judea and used Judean booty from the destruction of the 2nd Temple and perhaps 100,000 Judean slaves to build the Colosseum in Rome. Rome always referred to Roman Judea as Palestine, before, during, and after its conquest by the enlightened Hellenistic Greeks under Alexander the Great and the unenlightened Romans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colosseum
The last time the Jews lived in peace with and thrived under Islam was at the turn of the first millennium In the Middle East, North Africa, and Spain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule
It is also true that the Turks liquidated as many as 1.5M Christian Greeks,
1.25M Christian Armenians and 750,000 Assyrians from the time of the
collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI through the emergence of
the Young Turks. Many of the rest of these ethnic minorities fled to Lebanon, with some spilling over into northern Palestine. However, we wouldn’t want to double-count those Christians who escaped Turkish genocide to Palestine as Christian and Muslim Arabs with permanent residence in Palestine who were allegedly ethnically cleansed from Palestine by the Jews during the fight with the attacking Arab nations for the existence of the state of Israel but in reality
fled in fear of false rumors that the Jews were doing to massacre them like what the Muslim Arabs had done to the Jews in the Safed Plunder in 1834 and the Turks had done to the Christians in the early 1900s.
http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/center-study-genocide-conflict-resolution-and-human-rights/genocide-ottoman-greeks-1914-1923
No, it wasn’t. 6 Arab armies attacked the Jews with genocidal intent. Mahmoud Abbas admitted that his family fled Safed because they feared the Jews would do to them what the Arabs of Safed did to the Jews in 1929.
Had the Jews lost there would have been “a war of extermination and a momentous massacre”.
I don’t blame the Israelis for not letting most of them back to have a do over, especially considering what happened to the Jews of Arab lands.
By the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arab Palestinians had already been ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces.
And that is a very good thing. All muslims should be deported to their islamic countries and isolated there until they decide that waging war on innocent people to enforce their evil human rights abusing islamic sharia laws are not acceptable to the rest of the four fifths of humanity. Islam is a crime against humanity, and we definitely do not need muslims to take anymore territory than they have through ethnically cleansing the indigenous population, along with the christians an the jews. Islam has been and still is a 1400 year long genocide on humanity.
You know the pinnacle of the Muslim Hypocrisy? There are 50 Officially Muslim countries, thats More countries then in EU and more then all western countries combined. Thats even more if we take every country with White majority and add to it western Asian countries like Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan.
And they have the decency to bitch and moan that Europe doesnt want to take their so-called refuges, just 2 days ago Turkish Erdogan said during their party meeting how EU badly treats muslim refuges and how some countries dont want them etc etc.
Well MUSLIM refuges is NOT A PROBLEM of Christian/Atheist countries! Muslim refuges should be welcomed into MUSLIM countries, muslim countries should send every airplane they have to pick them up from the syrian border!
But thats not what hey do, most dont want them or give temporally visa, rich oil countries picked up less then 10K, they speak like they offer help but in reality they dont.
Muslims are so evil that they are OK with using their people as political tool: Every muslim so-called refuges
(in reality all of them are illegal infiltrators because even if some of them are real refuges, they broke the law anyway, the refuge convention says that you must apply for refuge papers in the first safe country and Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt are not countries at war they are considered safe, but the locals dont want them and the government does everything to make their conditions horrible and they tell them stories how they can get free apartments and tons of money if they manage to arrive to EU, its better to live in European “refuge shelter” which in reality is a hotel rented by the government then in Tenets in Turkey or Jordan, they like abusing western democratic laws and demand, all muslims do is demand and demand some more, they know that Europeans are either cowards or very calm people so they know if they apply force they will get what they want, the fact that when they moved in they imeidetly started Raping white girls and females: tahts called Sex Jihad) that arrives to EU and gets a Citizenship (thats another BIG question, since when REFUGES get citizenship? It was never this way, in Muslim countries refuges never get citizenship they get a staying permit and some times a work permit, then why do we give them more then what they give to each other?!!!! Thats Liberal Suicidal Lunacy, they are giving the key to invaders).
Basically the muslim countries are interested in flooding non muslim countries especially Western with white majority with so called refuges, they are a horrible financial burden, also the more muslims in non muslim countries the better: They never managed to take over Europe when they tried (well some parts temporally) and thats their dream to spread Islam all over the world, especially in rich historically Christian countries.
How is this even OK?They been using the so called refuges for years: Do you know that there are tens of “palestinian” refuge camps in Muslim countries? that the population increased to MILLIONS of people and there are third and fourth generations born in these countries and they are STILL REFUGES, they can vote, cant buy property, cant do governmental work and many more.
So hos is this normal:
A) Muslims illegally getting in EU, tell some story that they run away from a conflict: Get citizenship, hotel or rented apartments, classes and TONS of money for years and this is OUR money, we pay taxes, our parents pay taxes, our ancestors paid taxes, we paid taxes for hundreds of years and we dont get anywhere near the Super Class service these illegal infiltrators do!
B) Muslims arrive into other muslim countries, accepted as refuges and live in makeshift camps without any rights for GENERATIONS!!!
Some people might ask why? Well its simple in Islam life is not cherished like in JudeoChristian believes, for muslims the pinnacle of their live is to be martyred to die in the service of their cult and god.
Thats why they behave the way they do, they dont care about human live.
Thats why they can use their fellow muslim brothers and sisters as political tool, they can show some makeshift camp in Jordan, Syria or even Iraq and tell: look at all these poor refuges, Jews kicked them out of their home.
And most people especially the antisemitic an the leftists (these dont really think for themselves, poor people) actually believe the BS, somehow no one asks them a simple question? Why they are still living in makeshift camps, why there are 2nd,3red and 4th generation refuges and why their muslim brothers dont give them citizenship and full rights like the European fools do to total strangers with violent tendencies, hate for democracy and freedom, religious fanatics, open misogynists and open LGBT haters etc right the moment they arrive to their shores?!
Then how do you explain away these facts, made by people who were there at the time:
“The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and they would return in a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the “Zionist gangs” very quickly and there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.” Monsignor George Hakim, then the Greek Catholic
Bishop of Galilee (a leading Christian personality in Palestine) to a Beirut
newspaper, Sana al Janub, August 16, 1948.
“I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the Arab States in opposing partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously, and they must share in the solution of the problem.” Emil
Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leader of the
Palestinian Arabs, in a Beirut newspaper, also reported in the Daily Telegraph
on September 6, 1948.
“…The occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military
promenade… the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean… advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal
states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down…”
(General Secretary of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha as related by chief spokesman for the Arab League, Habib Issa — (Al Hoda, June 8, 1951 – A NY Lebanese daily newspaper).
Do you really believe that you know better than the people who made these statements?
What Zionist forces? There were 4 arabs per 1 Jew in 48.
You are denying the existence of Zionist military forces? Seriously?
I deny the stupid name you invented, what Zionist military forces?
You mean self defense groups that had to be organized in order to protect the Jews from Arabs? Yes of course they existed, Jews had to be protected!
The fact is that when the war started there was about 3-4 Arabs for every Jew.
Now add to this all the arab invaders? Almost every Arab country sent soldiers and the number increased to 20-30 arabs per every Jew, so the Jews won it fare and square, Arabs have to blame themselves for loosing, get over it, they lost. You dont see Germans bitching that Russia still has their lands lost in WW2.
No one forced Arab civilians to run, the fact remains: almost 20% of Israels population is Arab, they stayed and lived.
I deny these “palestinians” you are talking about, open any pre 1968 newspaper and they were calling themselves Arabs like they should, this “palestinian” was invented by Arafat in 1968.
They just bunch of unregistered immigrant arabs.
I deny your fixed statistics “For instance, after a series of riots in Jaffa in 1921 resulting in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs” sounds like some Jews attacked Arabs and Some Arabs attacked Jews, which is False, the Arabs attacked the Jews and Jews defended themselves.
I deny the lie that Jews lived in peace with Arabs, that never happened, Jews lived like second class citizens in every muslim country, it was muslims that started marking Jews first, not Europeans.
Also the way you speak like its understandable that Arabs kicked out the Jews because of what happened in Israel, shifting the blame to the Jewish side.
What Zionist benefactors?, the Brits had total control over everything including immigration, Jewish immigration was extremely limited unlike arab immigration that was unregistered and basically open border policy.
What Zionist controlled before 1948? After 1948, of course 100%!
P.S. How do you explain Arabs living in Beyt-lehem or Hevron??? These are Hebrew names for villages that over 2000 old!
Its like saying that Paris is not french because the Parisians run away and it was occupied by someone. No its theirs and they have the right to return and kick the invaders out, by force.
By the time the Zionist leadership declared the existence of the state of Israel and the neighboring Arab countries managed to muster a military response, a quarter million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.
Israel was declared to exist without defined borders on land mostly belonging to Arabs, with the Jewish community owning less than 7%.
For an antidote to your ignorance about the use of the term “Palestinian”, see here.
You quote where I wrote “For instance, after a series of riots in Jaffa in 1921 resulting in the deaths of 47 Jews and 48 Arabs” and then go on as though I was being misleading or denying that “the Arabs attacked the Jews”, as you say, when in fact in the very next sentence I refer explicitly to “Arab attacks on Jewish communities”.
For the relatively peaceful coexistence of Jewish and Arab communities in Palestine, see again Myth #1.
You state, “Also the way you speak like its understandable that Arabs kicked out the Jews…” I have no idea what it is I wrote that you are even referring to.
You ask, “What Zionist benefactors?” Take, for example, the majority members of UNSCOP, which explicitly rejected the right of the Arab Palestinians to self-determination because it stood in the way of the Zionists’ goal of establishing a Jewish state. And, of course, the UK did allow Jewish immigration and expressed its support for a “national home” for the Jews in Palestine. The Zionists, of course, didn’t think the UK supported their project enough.
You say, “What Zionist controlled before 1948? After 1948, of course 100%!” You’ll have to make a coherent statement if you wish me to be able to respond.
You ask about towns with Hebrew names like Bethlehem and Hebron. What a silly question — as though I deny that the Hebrews inhabited the land 3,000 years ago.
The ethnic cleansing is a myth, what Zionist army? to kill quarter of a million people, do you know who long does it takes and how many people will you need to do it?
How many Jews lived there before 1948 and how many of them were of military age and out of these group how many belonged to self-defense groups?
The amount of Arabs calling themselves palestinians increased over ten fold by now, someone doing a very poor job of ethnic cleansing.
Why you never mention the Hebron Massacre that almost every Arab living there lives in a house of some poor Jew their grandfather killed in 1929.
palestinian has a dual meaning, like American or Russian, when people spoke about palestinians they were speaking about the citizens,Arabs, Brits Jew etc.
No one spoke about any palestinian Nation or Ethnicity.
Have you herald about Liberland its self proclaimed nation on disputed area between Croatia and Serbia.
So, based on your logic,second generation born there will be sort of locals and have claim to the land? When dispute ends between Croatia and Serbia they have every right to move in force and kick every invader out, even if it happens in 500 years.
The fact that you moved somewhere dosent make you Native, invader arab in France will be Arab even in 10 generations, he will NEVER be French.
Same applys to the Jews that lived abroad and these “palestinians”.
What makes people a nation?? You need to have history, these palestinians dont, they had no Kings, no own Currency, no ancient folk tales,no children stories unique to them, their history starts at 1968 and their heroes are terrorists and suicide bombers.
The UK turned boats back, even during WW2, their only intrest was with the oil states, same as it is now.
When I asked what Zionist controlled before 1948 I was talking about Land and Political power in the mandate.
The arabs denied ANY plans in the partition, that the reason why they were not included. Even thou chapter 7 speaks of independent state of Palestine, so what Zionist UNSCOP?
For you people everyone who sides with Jews is a Zionist.
Thats the issues here: you are extremely biased!
You confuse willful ignorance with an argument.
Again, by the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response following and the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel on May 14, 1948, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.
OK, whatever you say, Bro. You bring no evidence to anything you say, you just say something and we should take it as a fact, where are the gas chambers or mass graves? Nope?!
I guess Ill take my chances with real professional historians rather then some anonymous guy writing articles on the Internet.
Even here in Russia, (and our country is not really pro-Israel), and with the fact that USSR supported almost every war against Israel (yes I know Stalin supported Israel, Initially that is), people that learn history of ME learn it the way I described it. Of course if you can find any mass graves, ill turn pro”palestinian at the spot and even abandon Atheism in favor of the Islam.
Was randomly on Twitter and look what I stumbled upon: The TRUTH
https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/683096068041515008
made a screenshot just in case he edits the Twit later
I’m sure you have a point, but I can’t fathom what it is.
Party A says there is this mythical nation/ethnicity called “palestinians”.
Party B says they just ta bunch of land thieving Arabs that moved in for better jobs under ottoman and then British rule.
This person was 100% honest about it. He admitted his family is from Iraq.
What a typical arrogant western person cant understand is that Arabs to this day have family names based on their country/city of origin, you cant be “palestinian” with a family name like: Misri, Baghdadi etc
These people moved in to Jewish Graveyard and then declared it their own property.
The individual said his family had lived in Palestine for seven generations. That means when Palestine was ethnically cleansed of most of its Arab population, his family were Palestinians (not Iraqis).
David Ben-Gurion described the Arab revolt of 1936 as “an active resistance by the Palestinians to what they regard as a usurpation of their homeland by the Jews”. Funny to speak such a way about a people that doesn’t exist.
Also odd how 750,000 people that didn’t exist could have been ethnically cleansed from their homeland.
Spare us your idiotic, prejudiced nonsense. You are on warning for trolling.
There were only Palestinians when there was Israel. Before that they were random Arabs, many squatting on absentee owners land.What was the capital of Palestine, by the way? What was their constitution?
You comment as though I had said that Palestine was at the time an independent state.
Do you have an argument you’d like to make?
LIE. Did you NOT read the article? Land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that ARABS OWNED more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent – and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.
By “ethnically cleansed”, do you mean “kicked out, or fled”? It has less rhetorical flourish. It happens quite a bit in a post colonial collapse, when new countries form down ethnic, linguistic and religious lines.
Perhaps you should mention that close to an equal number of Arabs stayed in Israel and received full citizenship (even Washington didn’t let the Loyalists who fled to Canada return), and that close to an equal amount of Jews were “ethnically cleansed” from Muslim and Arabs countries.
Fled–at the urging of the Arab League.
This Zionist propaganda claim is not taken seriously by scholars. Most refugees fled out of fear of additional massacres like at Deir Yassin or were expelled from their homes by Zionist forces, never allowed to return, their homes and villages wiped off the map. By the time the armistice lines were drawn, 750,000 Arabs had been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.
Evidence? What you mean is that you only prefer revisionist history. And here we go again with the “Deir Yassin” massacre which is again taken out of historical context. First, real scholars agree that what occurred was a tragedy but was not part of any government order. It should also be understood in the context of war – and that immediately prior to this, Arabs had massacre an ambulance etc on their way to Jerusalem. What seemed to have happened was that members of the “Haganah lost their heads” and the result was a dreadful stain on the Israelis.
It is interesting to note, that while Israel acknowledges what happened, the Arabs not only refuse to acknowledge the murder of women, children and men, but dent, deny and deny again that murderous Arab attacks on Jews began in 1922 when there was NO “Occupation”, NO “Settlements” and NO “Jewish State of Israel”.
To deny that one day following Israel’s Declaration of Independence that 5 Arab countries illegally attacked and invaded the nascent state takes an extraordinary deny of reality.
How perfectly meaningless to say the Deir Yassin massacre is “taken out of historical context”. I didn’t say it was done on the orders of the Zionist leadership. I said it inspired fear in the Arab population, which it did.
As for the military intervention of the neighboring Arab states, again, by the time they managed to muster a response to the illegitimate declaration of the existence of Israel on May 14, 1948, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.
The Arab leadership propagandized Deir Yassin into a “wake up call” by which it intended to galvanize resistance. Instead, it galvanized mass escape. Some “nation.”
And Israel came into existence via the ethnic cleansing of most of the Arab population of Palestine. Some “nation”, as well.
Some nation indeed. Something called the Jewish people preceded the state that was established in May 1948. In that war, it accepted national leadership, behaved nationally, and emerged victorious. Everything that the other side did not.
As stated in the most apt retort by the Lebanese delegate to the UN in a General Assembly debate over Israel’s request to join the membership of the organization — with reference to Theodor Herzl’s view “that if a Jewish State was created in Palestine, it would constitute a bulwark of European civilization against barbarism”:
“If the civilization which the Jews wished to protect was epitomized by the regime which they had set up in Palestine with all its atrocities, then the Arabs of the Middle East, together with all the other countries of Asia, would almost certainly prefer barbarism.”
Bull. Benny Morris documents this carefully. Some left so as not to live under Jewish rule. Others left at the encouragement of local leaders. Additional Arabs fled not due to “massacres like at Deir Yassin” (since that was unique) but due to bombastic Arab scare propaganda related to Deir Yassin. Small numbers in hostile border villages were expelled. You lump all of them together in the false charge of ethnic cleansing. Unworthy.
Citing Benny Morris won’t help your denialism.
“It is impossible to evade it. Without uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not have arisen here…. A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population….” — Benny Morris
The uprooting of which Morris speaks in what you quote is parsed over hundreds of pages in his account of the formation of the Palestine refugee problem, village by village. It was brought on by the total war that the Arabs instigated, not by a Zionist ethnic cleansing scheme.
Morris evidently disagrees with you. More:
“Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would not have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to evade it. Without uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not have arisen here….
“There is no justification for acts of rape. There is no justification for acts of massacre. Those are war crimes. But in certain conditions, expulsion is not a war crime. I don’t think that the expulsions of 1948 were war crimes. You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs. You have to dirty your hands….
“There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing….
“That was the situation. That is what Zionism faced. A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population…. ”
— Benny Morris
Op-Ed: How many Arab refugees were there in 1948? Maybe 300,000 – or less
The inflated numbers of third generation refugees claimed by Arabs and the UN started with an inflated number in 1948.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/18262#.VvtVxfkrI2x
Its obvious this clown is w/the JIDL. They pay these mulyans to come and post zionist propaganda.
Is this “Zionist propaganda”?
“The Arab states which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees.” – The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, February 19, 1949.
“The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade…Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes–Al Hoda, a New York-based Lebanese daily, June 8, 1951.
“The Arab Exodus …was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews. …For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs … By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy.” – The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.
“The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in.” A refugee quoted in Al Difaa (Jordan) September 6, 1954.
“The wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab states, and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and re- take possession of the country.” – Edward Atiyah (Secretary of the Arab League, London, The Arabs, 1955, p. 183).
“The 15th May, 1948, arrived … On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead.”– The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963.
In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave.
We have accustomed them to begging…we have participated in lowering their morale and social level…Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children…all this in the service of political purposes…”– Khaled el-Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972 memoirs, published in 1973.
Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) wrote an article in March 1976 in “Falastin al-Thawra”, the official journal of the PLO in Beirut: “The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.
“The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable.” – The Current President of the Palestinian authority- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra (“What We Have Learned and What We Should Do”), Beirut, March 1976.
Do you really think you know more facts and understand the Arab culpability better than the people quoted here?
I could just as easily provide quotes from Arab leaders that Israel was created by the UN.
And, yes, I know better.
I repeat: The claim that there were no expulsions, but that they all left at the urging of Arab leaders, is a myth not taken seriously by scholars.
“And, yes, I know better.”
I can’t imagine the arrogance needed to believe this. Somehow, I think that the people who were there, and who created the Arab policies should certainly know the facts better than you do. A little modesty can go a long way.
Yet the claims of Arab leaders that almost 900,000 Jews left the Arab lands they had been living in for centuries “for ideological reasons”, and no one bats an eyelid at the colossal lie. This is apparently in line with your opinions.
Nowhere did I claim that there were no expulsion, there were some. But even the Beirut Institute for Palestinian Studies published an article stating that “68% of the Palestinian refugees left their homes without ever seeing a Jewish soldier or hearing a shot fired.”
The fact remains that Deir Yassin, a pitched battle that was inflated into a “massacre” by the Arab press in Palestine, was a pivotal cause for the mass movement of Arabs out of Palestine, rather than strengthening Palestinian Arab resolve to defend their “homeland”.
It’s important to note that Bir Zeit University published a monograph in 1988, clearly stating that Deir Yassin was a pitched battle and not a massacre. The monograph was the result of interviews with Deir Yassin survivors over a period of several years. In 1998, when the BBC produced a documentary called “50 Years of War”, their researchers came up with the same conclusion. Not so strangely, the monograph was removed from the Bir Zeit web site almost immediately after it was published, but the BBC documentary is still available.
Since neither of these entities has any interest in pronouncing Israel innocent of wrongdoing, their conclusions should at least be taken into account.
What I see in you is another historical fiction writer, just like Ilan Pappe, who has publicly admitted that “Indeed the struggle is about ideology, not about facts, Who knows what facts are? We try to convince as many people as we can that our interpretation of the facts is the correct one, and we do it because of ideological reasons, not because we are truthseekers” (Le Soir, Nov. 29, 1999).
The debate between us is on one level between historians who believe they are purely objective reconstructers of the past, like [Benny] Morris, and those who claim that they are subjective human beings striving to tell their own version of the past, like myself. (“Benny Morris’s Lies About My Book,” Ilan Pappé, Response to Morris’ critique of Pappé’s book, “A History of Palestine” published in the New Republic, March 22, 2004, History News Network, April 5, 2004)
If you want to tell your own version of the past, like Ilan Pappe, that’s your privilege, but PLEASE, don’t masquerade as a truth-teller while you present your version of things.
In conflicts, just as in divorce cases, there are always three versions: the versions of each side and the truth, which will lie somewhere between the first two, possibly closer to one side’s version than the other’s. FACTS prove that the Israeli version is closer to the truth than the Arab version.
You confuse confidence with arrogance. Once again, it is an uncontroversial historical fact that Palestine was ethnically cleansed. There is no serious dispute about this among scholars, just as the massacre at Deir Yassin is also an uncontroversial historical fact.
I’ve no interest in debating uncontroversial facts with you. The discussion is beyond that level of willful ignorance.
Your “uncontroversial facts” are nothing of the sort. What you want to do is ignore the real facts and retain the lies of your narrative despite the real facts.
I truly feel sorry for your closed-mindedness to any evidence that contradicts your own opinions.
You haven’t shown me any evidence that contradicts anything I’ve said. Hence my repeated observation that the facts are as I’ve stated them.
Since you consistently deny traceable, attributed quotes, it’s obvious that you have no intention of actually accepting the idea that your unsupported narrative is simply propaganda.
May I suggest a tattoo for you, it should read: “MY MIND IS MADE UP, DON’T CONFUSE ME WITH FACTS!”
How I pity your closed-mindedness and obvious bias born out of prejudice.
The irony of this comment is quite humorous, given the fact that you are denying the historical fact that over half the Arab population of Palestine was ethnically cleansed in order for the “Jewish state” to be established while parroting Zionist propaganda that scholars no longer take seriously. You can post all the quotes you like parroting this Zionist lie, but the ethnic cleansing of Palestine remains a well-documented and uncontroversial historical fact.
A “well-documented and uncontroversial fact”?
Perhaps in your mind, but apparently not in the minds of many Arab leaders immediately after the 1948 war.
The most telling testimony comes from no less a Palestinian persona than Mahmoud Abbas, whose family left Safed less than one week after the UN vote on partition, fearing Jewish retribution for the family’s part in the 1929 Safed massacre and the 1936 to 1939 Arab riots:
“The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.
“The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable.” – The Current President of the Palestinian authority- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra (“What We Have Learned and What We Should Do”), Beirut, March 1976.
For you to say that you know better than the current president of the Palestinian Authority takes real arrogance and egotism.
Accept the fact that Israel is not the sole culprit and move on… the Arabs of Palestine deserve to share the blame, as do all the Arab League countries. If that doesn’t fit your preferred narrative, then tough luck.
Denying the ethnic cleansing of Palestine is like denying the Holocaust or Armenian genocide.
It is a well-documented and uncontroversial historical fact.
Once again, only in your mind. You constantly insist that “the Jews” are the only party responsible for this “ethnic cleansing” when there is adequate documented proof that the Arab League and the Higher Arab Committee for Palestine were at least as culpable.
You can deny the fact and attributable quotes as often as you like, but it won;t change the facts of the issue: a vast majority of the Arabs in Palestine left under the urging and even under the orders of Arab authorities, threatening those who remained to be considered “traitors” or “collaborators”.
That you refuse to accept these facts is your problem, not the problem of others. Deal with reality, a narrative based on falsehoods helps no one, least of all the Arabs of Palestine that you claim you want to help. Support like yours enables those people who want to, to imagine that they can still destroy Israel and have all the “Jewish gold and Jewish land” they were promised 68 years ago.
The Arab states were not responsible for ethnically cleansing Palestine of most of its Arab population.
The Zionists who committed the ethnic cleansing were responsible for ethnically cleansing Palestine of most of its Arab population.
They certainly ARE responsible for encouraging the Arab population of Palestine to leave, granting a “free fire zone” for the invading Arab armies.
In addition, the Arab states alone are responsible for the expulsion of between 850,000 – 900,000 Jews from their lands… people whose families had often lived in those places for 1,000 years or more before Mohammed was even a gleam in his father’s eye.
Any time you want to talk about the “poor Palestinian refugees”, you also have to talk about the Jewish refugees whose land, homes, businesses, bank accounts and personal property was stolen by those Arab governments.
Land owned by Jews in Arab states (and stolen by those governments) totaled almost five times the land area of Israel, including the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
I’ve given up on the idea of your posts having any truth in them… you seem addicted to propaganda sites that have nothing but distortions, half-truths and outright lies in them.
Have a nice life.
I repeat:
The Arab states were not responsible for ethnically cleansing Palestine of most of its Arab population.
The Zionists who committed the ethnic cleansing were responsible for ethnically cleansing Palestine of most of its Arab population.
The idea that the Arab League was responsible for the exodus of Palestinians is risible given the numbers that were expelled before the League intervened. It was this expulsion that caused them to enter the fray. From the Statement by the Arab League upon the Declaration of the State of Israel (May 15, 1948) :
Security and order in Palestine have become
disrupted. The Zionist aggression resulted in the exodus of more than a
quarter of a million of its Arab inhabitants from their homes and in taking
refuge in the neighbouring Arab countries
I have always referred to this number but now there is new evidence to suggest it may be much higher. According to Historian Rosmarie Esber, the figure is 400,000.
“Zionist Jewish military organizations forced more than 400,000 Palestinian Arab inhabitants from their homes in about 225 villages, towns and cities in Palestine” before 14 May 1948”
(Under the Cover of War: The Zionist Expulsion of the Palestinians,
Arabicus Books & Media, LLC, 2009)
“With example after example, Esber exposes the miscalculation of Israeli historian Benny Morris’ research, who considers the Palestinian refugee issue nothing more than a result of war and not done by design. Esber’s findings prove this theory very wrong.
Dr. Esber’s extensive research, which she conducted for her Ph.D. dissertation in history from the University of London, is a welcomed addition to the work being done to shed light on what actually happened to the people of Palestine during the hostilities leading up to the founding of the state of Israel.”
http://www.wrmea.org/2009-april/under-the-cover-of-war.html
And at the urging of their local leaders, who encouraged women and children to retreat to the hinterland so that the men could concentrate on fighting. Well, once the women and children retreated, the men saw nothing to fight for, so they retreated as well. Some “nation.”
Most fled out of fear of further massacres or were expelled.
I suspect your count of “most,” if you actually performed one. As for fear of further massacres, the Jews suffered massacres and didn’t flee in fear of further ones.
Yes, you would assert that the greater number fled at nothing more than “the urging of their local leaders”, which wouldn’t require any actual count, of course.
A myth that dies hard.
By “ethnically cleansed”, I mean fled out of fear or were expelled, never allowed to return to their homes
Maybe you missed the last part of my post: “Perhaps you should mention that close to an equal number of Arabs stayed in Israel and received full citizenship (even Washington didn’t let the Loyalists who fled to Canada return), and that close to an equal amount of Jews were “ethnically cleansed” from Muslim and Arabs countries.”
This isn’t anything new in a post-colonial collapse. See the fall of the British Raj and formation of modern India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
No, I did not miss the last part of your post.
Okay, then you just ignored it. Bon fait.
Yes, I ignored it as it’s irrelevant to the point that 700,000 Arabs were ethnically cleansed from Palestine for the “Jewish state” to come into existence and an attempt to deflect away from that fact.
I think the fact that 20% of Israel are Arabs and no Jew lives in peace anywhere in the ME or in fact in the world with Muslims nearby, It speaks alot more volumes than anything you said and is as simple as one could make it.
Futhermore, showing that actually, to have Arabs living peacefully in their country shows the complete opposite. Someone who has “ethnically cleansed” could be these Muslim countries, which have ethnically cleansed not just Jews but Christians too. It is a sort of domino effect that exists from one end of this planet to the other concerning Muslims! The way they have treated Jews over the last half a century can be cross referenced with the way they have treated other cultures all across the world to be exactly the same. I have here an article of a man who blasted the United Nations for ignoring Muslim acts of genocide in Sudan – http://www.thefreepressonline.co.uk/news/1/2552.htm
The point is that Palestinian is a clever term. Jews have lived in that region for thousands of years therefore they are by every human right a Palestinian, so are the Christians and so are the Arabs, mainly of which, Muslims that live there. It is worth nothing that these Arab nations around Israel are Muslim nations and that the Hamas attacking it daily are Muslim terrorists. Furthermore attacks on Jews is western nations recently have been perpetrated by Muslims. It is only Muslims in this day and age using the term Palestinian to better themselves and the irony is, given there are no P’s in the Arabic language they cannot even pronounce the name they call themselves.
Palestine is not a Palestinian issue, it is a Muslim issue and it always will be. They will continue raping the life out of this world until left wing morons (no offence) stop sucking their backsides making them the victims after they’ve killed endless amounts of people! Because lefts not forget the Grand Mufti of Palestine, A Muslim leader of the region advocated and supported the holocaust and wanted all Jews ethnically celansed from Palestine making him a close friend to Adolf Hitler!! What was that about Ethnic cleansing? Or are you now a Holocaust denier like most Muslims?
I am not surprised they wasn’t allowed back to their homes, they don’t mind it when they are killing innocent people and it is proven in almost every country in the world and yet when the shoe is on the other foot it’s a different kettle of fish entirely and I am sorry but the world and life just doesn’t work like that!
The Gazan population are foul human beings that make my stomach churn. In every conflict that Palestinians have killed Jews, they rejoice and party. It is common that they hand out sweets! Kids are growing up in this city learning that the only fun and event they have to look forward to are the deaths of other human being. It is widely believed that this sort of party extravaganza took place on the Paris attacks because most targets were Jews including Charlie Hebdo. It makes it almost impossible for me to support such foul existence that cheers at the murder of other human beings. It is proof beyond all means that the self-procclaimed Palestinian population do not want peace and if that is the case, then go for it Israel is all I have to say.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/11/18/photos-palestinians-celebrate-hand-out-candy-after-synagogue-terror-attack/ – I think if Israel had blew a Mosque to kingdom come then the reaction would be different.
“Again, by the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response following and the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel on May 14, 1948, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.”
I suppose it’s no surprise that a confirmed conspiracy theorist would support the “Palestinians”. I also suppose it doesn’t matter to you that the Beirut Institute for Palestinian Studies found that “68% of the Palestinian refugees left their homes without ever hearing a shot fired or seeing a Jewish soldier”.
I’d like to hear your spin on this excerpt from an interview with a member of the PLO’s Executive Council, published in a Dutch newspaper in March, 1977:
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a
Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a
Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.” Zuheir Muhsin, member of the PLO Executive Council, in a March 1977 interview to the Dutch newspaper “Trouw”.
Now try to spin these quotes from Arab leaders and Arabic media:
“I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the Arab States in opposing partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously, and they must share in the solution of the problem.” Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leader of the Palestinian Arabs, in a Beirut newspaper, also reported in the Daily Telegraph on September 6, 1948.
“…The occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade… the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean… advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down…”
General Secretary of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha as related by chief spokesman for the Arab League, Habib Issa — (Al Hoda, June 8, 1951 – A NY Lebanese daily newspaper).
“The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in.” (Jordan Daily Newspaper, Ad Dijaa, September 6, 1954.)
“The Arab states which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to
leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees.” – The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, February 19, 1949.
“The Arab Exodus …was not caused by the actual battle, but
by the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews. …For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs … By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy.” – The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.
“The wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab states, and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and re- take possession of the country.”
– Edward Atiyah (Secretary of the Arab League, London, The Arabs, 1955, p. 183)
“The 15th May, 1948, arrived … On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the
Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead.”– The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963.
In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was the call by
the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave.
We have accustomed them to begging…we have participated in
lowering their morale and social level…Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children…all this in the service of political purposes…”– Khaled el-Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972 memoirs, published in 1973.
Last but not least, let’s hear your spin on this article by none other than Mahmoud Abbas, now the illegitimate “President” of the
Palestinian Authority, entering the eleventh year of his four-year elected term of office:
“The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified
people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable.” – The Current President of the Palestinian authority- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra (“What We Have Learned and What We Should Do”), Beirut, March 1976.
“Abu Mazen Charges that the Arab States Are the Cause of the
Palestinian Refugee Problem” (Wall Street Journal; June 5, 2003):
Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) wrote an article in March 1976 in “Falastin al-Thawra”, the official journal of the PLO in Beirut: “The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.”
Until you can explain these away, your narrative doesn’t
have a leg to stand on.
Ignoring these statements and hiding the truth is nothing but dishonest journalism.
I suppose it’s no surprise that a person denying the ethnic cleansing of Palestine would engage in idiotic ad hominem argumentation serving only to reveal his own bigotry. Here are some other quotes for you:
“My approach to the solution of the question of the Arabs in the Jewish state is their transfer to Arab countries. — David Ben-Gurion
“I am for compulsory transfer. I do not see anything immoral in it.” — David Ben-Gurion
“[W]e are interested in less Arabs who will be citizens of the Jewish state…” — Golda Myerson (later Golda Meir)
“—Destruction of villages (setting fire to, blowing up, and planting mines in the debris), especially those population centers which are
difficult to control continuously.
“— Mounting combing and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search inside it. In the event of resistance, the armed force must be wiped out and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state.” — Plan Dalet, explaining how Ben-Gurion’s “compulsory transfer” would be implemented.
“There were 200 villages … and these are gone. We had to destroy them, otherwise we would have had Arabs here … as we have in Galilee. We would have had another million Palestinians.” — Yitzhak
Pundak, explaining to Haaretz how the Givati Brigade’s 53rd Battalion ethnically cleansed southern Palestine.
“The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” — title of a book by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe
“It is impossible to evade it. Without uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not have arisen here…. A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population….” — Israeli historian Benny Morris
Quotes out of context, a contingency Plan Dalet that was never implemented, one historical fiction writer (Ilan Pappe) and one who had the honesty to examine new evidence and re-examine old evidence, who changed his interpretation of the facts (Benny Morris).
It’s kind of pathetic as a post, but might be convincing to anyone who doesn’t know the facts of the conflict.
As with most pro-Palestinian posts, the author of this burst of posts ignores the declared objective of the Arab governments, including the Higher Arab Committee for Palestine… to murder the Jews and steal whatever had belonged to them. Since you can’t deny it, you ignore it.
Ad hominem would imply that you yourself are being attacked,
instead of the content of your posts. If you want to deny being a conspiracy theorist, you’ll have to deny most of the articles you’ve written over the years.
“[Operation] Nahshon … marked the beginning of the implementation of tochnit dalet (Plan D)…”
“Operation Nahson marked the start of the implementation of Plan D.”
“[Explusion plans] were not, in fact, activated before the implementation of Plan D in April and May.”
— Benny Morris, 1948
This is THE favourite of the “anti-Zionist” who either de-contextualises the quotes, fabricates them, or only quotes part of the statement – this is especially the case with David Ben Gurion.
In his book, “Trials of the Diaspora: A History of Anti-Semitism in England” (2010, Oxford University Press), Anthony Julius has an entire section on this and includes the way in which nasty “antiu-Zionists” misrepresent David Ben-Gurion.
It is impossible to argue, in the way you do, without showing the actual SOURCE of the quote and the context.
How desperate of you to falsely suggest any of the quotes I provided were “fabricated”.
But you must maintain your denial somehow.
The attempt to execrate yourself is to attempt to discredit me. The fact remains that your “quotes” attributed to Ben Gurion are fabrications.I supplied for you evidence via Anthony Julius. You, on the other hand, failto provide any sources to substantiate your fabrications.
Here is further evidence on the subject by Professor Efraim Karsh of King’s College, London: Fabricating Israeli History: The “new Historians”
In November 2011, CAMERA informed editors at the Journal of Palestine Studies (JPS) of a falsified quote, attributed to Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion, that was published in its pages. After investigating the matter, the journal went through the motions of clearing the record. Unfortunately its correction, while acknowledging that mistakes were made, introduced additional, serious inaccuracies that severely misinform readers.
According to JPS, the author of the article that relayed the hoax quote, Israeli historian Ilan Pappé, “declined to respond himself” to the questions about his falsification. Nonetheless, the journal’s editors defended “the overall accuracy” of Pappé’s piece, arguing that another purported statement by Ben-Gurion showed the author was essentially correct.
Pappé was a professor at Haifa University and supported his MA student, Teddy Katz who fabricated a “massacre” at Tantura, 1948. Pappé left Israel and embraced by Exeter University in the UK. Pappé openly admits that he is not “a truth seeker” and that his work is driven by “ideology”. Pappé was a member of Hadash, the Israeli Community (Marxist) Party and is an anti-Israel propagandist.
Pappé claimed that Ben-Gurion wrote, “The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.” JPS maintained this quote, while incorrect, is close enough to what they say Ben-Gurion actually wrote, namely that “We must expel Arabs and take their place.”
The editors should have realized, though, that the new quote they cited is at best questionable, and almost certainly inaccurate. Making matters worse, JPS inserted invented words into its English translation of the document it used to defend Pappé’s article.
In other words, it introduced its own falsehoods to defend Pappé’s falsehood.
I suggest you take a look at CAMERA’s article: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=2219
I am not the one who is in denial. Unlike Pappé, I am not a historical revisionist.
No, they are not. Banned for trolling.
If you can’t win on the facts, call them a bigot. Good for you.
My observation of bigotry was just that: an observation. As for the facts, they are as I’ve stated them.
you should read ”mornings in jenin” by susan abulhawa.
Why? I dont read political fiction, only SciFi.
it’s historical fiction and why limit yourself to one genre?
SciFi is not 1 genre, under SciFi you have Technological, Space, Space Opera, Planetary, Horror, Post-apocalyptic (This one has lots of sub genres), Historical Fantasy, Magical Fantasy and lots more.
I usually “read” around 50+ books a year, sometimes more.
I dont limit myself to new books, I read everything and I have much more options because I can read Russian and English.
Russians have MANY MANY books, not only translations from other languages but there are hundreds of Russian writers, maybe second after English.
English still wait for the full Witcher translation from Polish of the last books, I finished the whole series, half year before Witcher 3 (The video game) came out.
Russian are book worms, I never encountered such a living community of people doing free audio-dubbing starting with noobs up to super professionals reading books.
There are tens of new books EACH day on the their hobby books sites, most are professionally done all for free. These are not fiction but real books from the shop.
Some people even got special equipment, some even build dedicated sound proof booths, and they dont charge a penny, with new people coming every day, sometimes I see a new guy trying a book and it sucks, but then with all the negativity he gets, he tries again and again and by the third book people love him.
What a wall of text :)
interesting.
The Russians also wrote, or at least promoted “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. Should that be on everyone’s reading list?
i haven’t read it.why are you asking me?
Thank for your knowledge on that subject, it helped me understand!
And what about the massacre of Hebron in 1834 and the pogroms in Sefad in 1383? The myth is that Mr. Hammond has any reason.
The area of Palestine before the revival of the Jews in Israel (the Zionist movement) was barely populated and extremely poor.
Mark Twain, in his inimitable fashion, expressed scorn for what he called the “romantic” and “prejudiced” accounts of Palestine after he visited the Holy Land in 1867. In one location after another, Twain registered gloom at his findings.
“Stirring scenes … occur in the valley [Jezreel] no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent-not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings.”
“There is not one place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.” — Moshe Dayan
Would you like the full quote? It isn’t pretty. In terms of helping your case, that is, regarding Palestine being mostly unpopulated before the arrival of the Jewish immigrants.
How many Arabs lived in the Negev before the arrival of Jewish immigrants, how many lived in Haifa, Jaffa, or Jerusalem?
How many lived in what became the Mandate for Palestine territory, compared to the population density in Europe at the time, and to the density of the former Mandate territory today?
Aren’t you and Dror both right?
You’ll have to elaborate as I’m not following you.
The Nazis killed 6,000,000 Jews in about 6 years. So to kill about 250,000 people can take as little as 3 months on average, with only a few concentration camp guards. No, of course Israel didn’t use the appalling methods of the Nazis, but it actually isn’t difficult to do it at all.
I’ll ask you the same question. Do you know how long it takes to kill 6 million Jews and how many people it takes to do that. ( especially in gas chambers and burning in mass graves) The 6 million figure is exaggerated. Yet, I do not deny that large numbers of Jews were murdered by the Nazi regime. Don’t forget as many Christians were killed by the Nazis and they have no Holocaust Museum.
Why respond at all?–people can see you are a pro-Terrorist, Israel hater. You leave out issues that do not support your position–willfully, I would imagine. But you are so popular with the left, aren’t you?
Actually Jeremy is rather obscure. He’s only significant in his own mind. The title of his “organization” sounds much more prominent than the vanity press that it actually is.
I challenge you to substantively address the article, such as by pointing to any error in fact or logic, rather than engaging in intellectually bankrupt ad hominem argumentation.
LIES.
Actually it what called Historical facts over here in the Real world, but you can stay in the La-La land.
I like your last point except that it applies to the Palestinian Arabs who fled or were forced out in 1947 and later and not so much to the Jews who were expelled in another millennium.
You mean there are still Arab Jews living in muslim countries? It happened 60 years, not only they were violently kicked out butt heir land and business stolen, they fled with clothes on their backs that’s all.
Right now there are arab countries that have ZERO Jews and some countries have like 3 to 10 old people living!
The only muslim country that has Jewish community is Iran because back then Iran was normal and civilized country that looked like some place in Europe: Until the savage extremist muslims took over and we all know how it ended.
And Turkey has a small Jewish community, but Turks a’int Arabs too, more civilized.
The issue is far more complex than you’re making it. Read the Wiki article “Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries”, and then we’ll have a basis for this discussion.
It’s the same cowardly Zionist forces who bombed the USS Liberty in 1967 that killed 34 and wounded 170 sailors.
You are denying THE IDF WERE OUTNUMBERED NEARLY FIFTY TO ONE???
Are you some kind of unrepentant nazi? Are you an uneducated muslim? Are you an IDIOT?
“ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces.”
Are you KIDDING ME?
How do you post such garbage with a straight face? THE ARABS OF SIX NATIONS, SOME OF THEM LED BY BRITISH OFFICERS WERE POISED TO ATTACK when the Jews jumped off on day one instead of waiting to be slaughtered.
The invading Arab armies TOLD THE LOCAL ARABS TO GET OUT OF THE WAY and that they could come back and rape and pillage what was left after the arabs wiped out the IDF.
This is FACT, the arab radio broadcasts are RECORDED,yet you LIE like a rug trader.
Are you still smarting from the Jewish Obstetrician who smacked you on the butt to get you to breath?
WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????
By the time the Arab states managed to muster a military response, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine by the Zionist forces.
The Zionists’ propaganda claim that the Arabs fled on orders from the Arab leaderships is not taken seriously by scholars.
Why do you keep repeating this? Are you attempting to impose the Goebbels law of propaganda?
Why are you denying the truth? Do you think that by denying facts they somehow become untrue?
I asked you a question. You don’t answer a question, with a question. You keep repeating it. Again – Why?
The questions I put to you sufficiently answer your question to me. I will continue to state the facts so long as you continue demonstrating your willful ignorance by denying them.
What about the Jews who were also displaced from their Arab homelands at this time? Why is there no mention of them? The figures were on par. The difference is – Israel integrated them. The Arabs decided to create a “Poster Child”, as means to an end, ignoring the suffering of their own people. The Arab world could have quite easily integrated them, but chose to put them in refugee camps, to use as political pawns. This has continued until today, and people such as yourself, who support Palestine, increase their suffering, and keep them in bondage.
What conclusion did I draw in the article that you think is changed by the fact that Arab countries expelled Jews in response to the Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine? I welcome you to produce an argument.
This is a fallacy, Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants COMBINED, often by a factor of two to three. The Arab armies DID NOT invade Israel, virtually all battles were fought on land that was to have been the Palestinian state.
It is significant to note that Arab armies entered the conflict only AFTER Zionist forces had committed 16 massacres, including the grisly massacre of over 100 men, women, and children at Deir Yassin.
Israel from the beginning has been a TERRORIST STATE. They have NEVER been the victims they want the world to believe they are.
Nice lie, so you either admit that there was more Jews then the arabs back then or you just lied?!
Deir yasin never happened, it has no factual proof, no bodies, no credible eye witnesses, it reminds me of those lying arab immigrants showing rusty house keys and saying that “1000 years ago we lived in this building in Tel-aviv, but then Jews kicked us out but we have this Key to prove it”.
The arab invasion is a known historical fact and these so-called massacres are nothing more then fictions, BUT Arabs mascaraing Jews is actually recorded history with pictures and articles in European newspapers of the period.
The so called “zionist forces” were self-defnce groups created to protect Jews and Jewish farmers from arab gangs.
Serious comments accepted only. Trolling is now permitted.
Your comic book history is too far off from even the standard Zionist narrative for anyone to take it seriously. No need to respond to you from now on.
Fallacy, anyone? Outnumbering your enemy is no sin. It is a sign of effective mobilization and national commitment. As for where the battles were fought, around one-third of Jewish fatalities — more than 2000 out of 6300 — were civilians. Where do you suppose they were, in Nablus? As for your coda, Israel need not pass a victimhood test.
Israel had a matter of days to cope as a country before Muslim armies surrounding it attacked it. It has ALWAYS been fighting back people that want to destroy it and their occupation of land is of what they won during that six day war.
But lets humor you! Israel has 3 territories it gained from that war! Gaza most known was Egyptian territory and since they achieved peace Israel offered it back to them, they didn’t want it and nor did Israel so it was given to the people and then they elected Hamas. Second, The Golan Heights. In a return agreement which wont happen under current issues because the owner is somewhat occupied by ISIS, I cannot see how this would become Palestinan territory since it is Syrian prior the war? Lastly, the West Bank is perhaps the most difficult. Prior the six day war Jordan annexed the West Bank and it was condemned by the west. It is unrecognised as their territory and of course there is no history of a Palestine borders before this so it remains disputed territory.. Jordan and Israel are on peaceful terms but Jordan has no right to lay claims on a land it took illegally anyway.
That proves prior the six day war that the Palestinian territory DID NOT exist therefore it confirms what others have said that this was nothing more than a creation of Arafat to fight for Arab Unity.
You can slap LIEES on to this if you like but rest assured only you look like the brainwashed idiot here
By the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces.
The West Bank is not “disputed territory”. Under international law, the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is occupied Palestinian territory.
Yeah but you hate Jewish Heritage. You said THE JEWS, not THE ISRAELIS. You’re on stolen Indian land buddy. ;) While Jewish Heritage, while it stole Palestine, they have no other Jewish State. Go back to Scotland, Wales, England or Holland. Ohio, Nebraska, Omaha, are not Euro-names are they now? You’re a Nazi, the end bro. Funny, the Nazis were on their rightful Germanic land, were they not?
Then why has the Arab population in Israel gotten bigger while Jews were slaughtered and driven out of Arab lands?
The question is who is a Jew? Is being Jewish a racial identity? Judaism is a religion just as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism are. In the accounts written in Bible, there were Canaanites & others in the land before the Israelites arrived there. So there were previous residents!
I believe that herein lies the origins of the dispute? Who has sole claim to these lands? Where are the borders to these claims? And the passage of time would have surely diluted the claims of those of 5000 years ago. Is there anyone country and its indigenes today that can be traced back to a single claim from 5000 years ago? Nations , borders, occupants and religious affiliations are fluid and changing throughout history.
The identitities of people around the middle-east are interwoven and altered by different events since 4000/5000 years ago when Moses was alive. People would have inter-married, migrated, converted to & fro different religions. So really is there anyone that “pure” whose ancestry can be traced back and solely to the biblical times of Moses?
This modern can of worms was re-opened by the “creation” of the modern state of Israel. Whilst the intention may have been noble, it was bound to create many and several problems. The use and reliance on historical accounts to re-establish a long gone “state of Israel & Judea” could not have happened without displacement of the 1948 inhabitants. The displacements and dispossessions by the 1948 event is what the world is still grappling with today. Every action and reaction since then has built on that “creation”.
Israel will continue to expand as long as all Jews around the world are welcomed or encouraged to come to Israel to settle. A basis in itself for more dispossessions.
If all muslims are not entitled to live in Saudi Arabia or Mecca why then should all Jews feel entitled to live in “Israel / Palestine” ?
However we are where we are. Both sides and in particular Israel must show a lot of magnanimity and restrain to heal the wounds of the dispossessed. How? By stopping its treatment of the palestine population and the continuous expansion. In time Palestinians would be less disposed to violence if they feel that they are not under siege. It has happened with the IRA in Britain so it can happen elsewhere too. Not trying a blame game but genuinely seeking solution here.
Many of the problems in the world have been centered around religious or racial identities. A religion should be a private belief and no state should describe itself solely by the religion of its majority people. When we move away from this model of states in the Middle-East & the World declaring themselves by their religious affiliations then there will be more peace. Peace be unto all regardless of our religious convictions.
Who cares? Genetic tests done on people with variations of the name Cohen have found that they stem from the Levant around a date that coincides with a slightly more history genetic split from Arabs.
But don’t forget, the Jews are also a race, it is in their DNA!
People confuse it or just dont understand, but the answer is very simple: Jews are EthnoReligious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group
Actually, it’s not. The ‘Jewish’ part of their DNA is Semitic. Same as Arabs.
Probably a significant proprtion is from Europe or NorthAfrica, depending on their family ancestry.
• Austin Von Bach: Jews are not a race although practically their DNA is quite homogeneous because relativelly few people through the ages converted to Judaism. More Jews being murdered or assimilated into other peoples.
No such thing as a Jewish race. There are australoids, caucasoids, mongoloids and negroids. Just four and no more.
Tim, funny, Geneticist disagree with you. Let me guess, you stupidly think you are qualified to speak on genetic matters? IF you do, you are stupider then you look on your pic.
Why not state your disagreements rather than abuse. We can disagree while proving evidence to back our views at the same time?
eh, those (G)eneticists ….
You’re so outrageously arrogant and insulting that you’re impossible to take seriously. Anyone who has to respond with such anger and insults doesn’t appear to have real confidence in their belief. If you’re so sure you are right, that you know the truth, well this should lead to peace; you should be able to debate without constant insults. It belies a insecurity about your position.
Being Jewish is not a race. It’s a religion. There are no more Hebrews. What about Ethiopian Jews or Chinese Jews are they the same race as Jews of Europe? Read the book ” The Invention of the Jewish People ” by Shlomo Sands. Are Swedish Christians related to the first century Christians of the Middle East?
They’re damn smart too
Its not 5000 years but less then 2000.
Also Jews are EthnoReligious group like the Druze, Hindus and many others its not just a religion.
Its not a question, sure not of you. Only Jews decide who is a Jew, as Jews don’t interfere the questions who are a Christian or Muslim.
But if you want to know, Judaism is not a race but people-hood with its own unique faith. Christianity and Isllam that are only faiths of various peoples and tribes. Jewish faith defines the Jewish people-hood.
There were previous residents in Israel before 3800 years, so whats your problem? They are not existing for the last 3000-2500 years. They were assimilated into the later peoples including the Jewish people.
Jews never left the land of Israel for the last 3800. There were always Jews living in the land even after the destruction of second Temple in 70AD. Arabs are the invaders, occupiers of the land and that the all issue.
http://sultanknish.blogspot.co.il/2016/04/islam-is-colonialism-palestine-is.html?m=1
.
Who said Jews left? Where did they Arabs invade from and who are they? Jews also came from somewhere? Abraham came from Ur, Modern day Iraq BUT found existing inhabitants there!
Exodus 3:17: “Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites now live”
Femio, suggest you Google the definition of a Jew, I know this is hard for you people to do, so let’s do this for you.
Jew: a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to Abraham.
The claim that this has to do with borders is pure nonsense, this has everything to do with the fact that Muslims believe once a land is controlled by Muslims it must stay that way, they will first use force, when that will not, nor has worked, they then resort to lies, thus the Palestinian myth.
Tell you what, answer this about these so called “Palestinians”, then get back in touch with me.
When was it founded and by whom?
•What were its borders?
•What was its capital?
•Who was the President?
•What was its form of government?
•What were its major cities?
•What constituted the basis of its economy?
•Who was the Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?
•Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
•What was the language of the country of Palestine?
•What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
•What was the name of its currency and what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, or Japanese yen on any particular date?
•And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?
You can not steal something someone has never owned, the bottom line is the Palestinians are a myth, they are just Arabs that magically turned in to Palestinians in 1969. But hey, don’t take my word for it, lets see what they say:
-Zuheir Mohsen (Arabic: زهير محسن)- top PLO member responsible for Damur massacre.
“”The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
This fact was admitted by Professor Philip Hitti, an Arab historian who declared, “There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.” This fact is further confirmed by the Saudi Arabia Representative at the United Nations. “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria.”
Fathi Hammad, minister of the interior and national security for Hamas, a recognized terror group, confirmed that “half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis.” He said this on Egyptian TV, Google it, the video is there for all to see.
Syrian dictator Hafez Assad (father of the present dictator) told PLO leader Yasser Arafat, “You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria.”
Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council, clearly said “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
Firstly times change. Many of the countries that now exists were not there at the turn of the last century. Did Britain/UK exist 1000yrs ago? No. Britain today is a country in flux with many immigrants of different racial and original national identities. We may yet loose the Scotland. We are all Brits today.
In the same vein, neither can Israel or Judea of the biblical times exist in same exact borders or with same people or same way as was then!
Tell you what. I attended a Biblical course only about a year ago. We were told of the existence of People (can’t remember their names ) who Gazans (Palestinians descended from).
According to Bible, when Israelites arrived in the Land of Milk and Honey they met inhabitants Exodus 3:17 states
“I have promised to rescue you from your oppression in Egypt. I will lead you to a land flowing with milk and honey–the land where the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites now live.”
Obviously the Biblical Jews were NOT the first inhabitants. It’s also recorded therein that they attacked and defeated those they found believing it was “the Promised land”!
Can’t you see how that can be a problem? Displacing people?
Anyway that’s a long time ago, things change, Do you honestly believe today’s Jews were the same as Biblical Jews? Most are Khazars, Eastern Europeans and other converts who adopted Judaism. In fact Yemen was Jewish and their palaces and historical artifacts bears Jewish symbols still. Are Egyptians of today exactly same as those of Biblical times? unlikely.
Very few races are today “same” as was 5000yrs ago, people migrate, we inter-marry etc. Even Solomon and David married many wives from other places! Most especially the Middle-East as we now know it has been a hot-pot of migration, religious, war & displacements, commence ever since recorded.
Imagine what would happen if some people came to lay claim to UK or USA from some 5000yr old scripts?
My view is we all have to live together. Find ways to make peace and be peaceful. We are at the point where Israel exist as a fact on the ground. Israel should stop expansion and seek peace. Stop the retaliation and let the goodwill win the day. Arabs and Palestinians will come to realise this as well. Most human beings just want to live and get on with there lives.That is no different for Arabs, Palestinians and Jews.
I honestly believe the situation can be surmounted with a lot of restrain but if only?
So we’ll spoken, thank you!
tbenton62….Seems those questions are not really your own but given to you by the Israeli Jew Hasbara Brigade.
Here are the answers:
https://www.transcend.org/tms/2009/12/answers-to-the-state-of-palestine-quiz/
That does not mean there was no attempt for slowly ethnic cleansing.
The question is, why has there been an effort to steal Palestinian land and throw Palestinians out of their homes?
There is no fast or slow ethnic cleansing, the fact that the Arab population is growing shows the fallacy of your claims.
Actually, the fallacy is yours, your syllogism being a non sequitur.
Then provide proof, or is that asking too much of you Jeremy?
Your conclusion doesn’t follow from your premise. It’s simple a matter of logic.
lol, you are a pseudo intellectual fool that got owned , well done tbenton62, you destroyed Jeremy R. Hammas. Hes so delusional that he probably thinks he is winning the argument. Thank you Jeremy for giving us a platform to destroy your arguments with pure logic
Andrew, I see you, too, have difficulty with logic. You are always welcome to go back and reread the discussion and try this time to comprehend what I said.
Where was the proof that the Palestinians lived there first? Why is it so difficult for you to provide this crucial piece of information?
He’s looping in his logical fallacies that he learned in high school. Hammond clearly holds a grudge and a major slant against reality.
Andrew- although coherence and logic are important these issues are mainly historical and Hammonds claims are thus based. The question is which histories are we to read to obtain a close to truth account. Wikipedia alone might be a good start.
Would you also claim that there was no Jewish holocaust either, as the population of Jews increased during the period of WWII?
The Jewish population in showed a reduction by over 6 million during the time of the holocaust, the Arab population that “claims” to be Palestinians have grown from 700,000 to over 12 million in the same time period.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Well according to this, there was no reduction
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432
And there has been no effort to steal their land, they never owned it in the first place. As for throwing them out of their homes, can you give one documented case where they did this, then moved in Jews? Of course you can not, that would mean backing up your slander.
This was never stated by him, it was later proven to be a misquote.
Second, can you please tell us when they owned it, can you tell us about this so called nation of Palestine:
When was it founded and by whom?
•What were its borders?
•What was its capital?
•Who was the President?
•What was its form of government?
•What were its major cities?
•What constituted the basis of its economy?
•Who was the Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?
•Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
•What was the language of the country of Palestine?
•What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
•What was the name of its currency and what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, or Japanese yen on any particular date?
•And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?
You can not steal something someone has never owned, the bottom line is the Palestinians are a myth, they are just Arabs that magically turned in to Palestinians in 1969. But hey, don’t take my word for it, lets see what they say:
-Zuheir Mohsen (Arabic: زهير محسن)- top PLO member responsible for Damur massacre.
“”The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
This fact was admitted by Professor Philip Hitti, an Arab historian who declared, “There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.” This fact is further confirmed by the Saudi Arabia Representative at the United Nations. “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria.”
Fathi Hammad, minister of the interior and national security for Hamas, a recognized terror group, confirmed that “half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis.” He said this on Egyptian TV, Google it, the video is there for all to see.
Syrian dictator Hafez Assad (father of the present dictator) told PLO leader Yasser Arafat, “You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria.”
Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council, clearly said “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”
That’s a lie. As for the rest of your comment, it’s just an effort to obfuscate from the point.
You can’t state when they owned. Please provide proof, some concrete examples with a timeline. Stop wasting time.
Jeremy, those questions the Zionist posed are not his own. Rather they are PRE- manufactured and given to Zionists to obsfuscate the reader.
Here are the answers to them , in case you ever come across the Israeli Jew pre- manufactured questions:
https://www.transcend.org/tms/2009/12/answers-to-the-state-of-palestine-quiz/
Thank you for posting this link!
Racquelle…you are most welcome.
Here..get to know these people:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY
I have to say thanks again, reading and this is excellent!
Thanks Paloma. Those people only spreading zionist propaganda and i am sure that he even did not read what he has posted. Anyway , these zionist questions fit more the satate of Israel , where it never existed before 15th May 1948 at 00:00 AM.
Moshe Dayan NEVER stated that – that is only a Nazi-Muslim propaganda. Truth is that Palestine is Jewish land, historically Jews have always been majority in Palestine before the birth of Christianity or Islam.
The Muslims mass murdered Jews over centuries brutally thus taking over Palestine in the name of Jewish Holocaust as mongered in the Quran.
Your claim that the quote is a fabrication is a lie. Moshe Dayan stated the following as quoted in Haaretz on April 4, 1969:
Also, again, both under the Ottomans and under the British, Palestine had an Arab majority. Moreover, population increase among the Arabs was mainly due to natural increase, while growth of the Jewish population was mostly due to immigration. Jews were a minority still even by 1948.
So, You can’t provide verifiable fact and citation of you musings and agitprop so you resort to disingenuous obfuscation and accuse tbenton of being the one to obfuscate? Yes really, You can’t even answer to one point of tebentons post and you expect us to take you as a serious commentator……
I don’t speak gibberish.
You certainly fooled me, All I see from you is gibberish and double speak, Not one bit of fact or verifiable citation
If you would like to identify a specific statement of mine you are challenging, I’d be happy to provide you with a reference.
What don’t you understand? Everything you spew is agitprop gibberish, From beginning to end…..Tah Ta….
I maintain that you are incapable of identifying even a single factual or logical error in the article. You have one final opportunity to try. Failing that, it will be “Tah tah, troll” for violating the terms of use of the comments section.
You’ve proven otherwise.
The point is… There was NEVER a Palestinian nation, just Arabs most of whom – not all but most – came to that land at the end of 19th and early 20th century (about the same time, European Jews started coming to that area). Now, to be fair… there were Muslims living there for many centuries but… if you look into the history of those Muslims you will know their ancestors were MOSTLY Jews, some were Samaritans, Aramaians, Druze and other minorities of the Levant. How did they get to become Muslims? Arab invasion… Convert or die!
p.s. All modern “Palestinians” with the last name Canaan – quite a few of them – have Jewish roots.
Wrong. The point is that the Arabs of Palestine had and have a right to self-determination, and that this right of theirs was rejected by the Zionists, who ethnically cleansed most of them from their homes in order to create their “Jewish state”.
Please provide the proof and source that this was a misquote.
Please explain what you are talking about.
I’m sorry, this didn’t go under the post of the person intended. There was a quote from Moshe Dyan detailing how they pushed “Arabs” (Palestinians) out. Someone said this was a disproven quote. I was asking for proof that it was a misquote.
Ah, I see, thank you. Yes, I shared the quote from Moshe Dayan, and someone claimed it was a fabrication, but that person was a liar. It was a statement he made that was reported in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz in 1969.
All true… there is a price to pay when you start a war and lose it. Ask USA, Russia, Germany, Poland, etc.
You may want to mention that majority of people we now call “Palestinians” came to that land at the end of 19th and early 20th centuries from Egypt, Syria, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Bosnia (Europe), and other Arab countries. Don’t believe me? Well, listen to what Palestinians themselves are saying. start at 0:40. They say one thing (lies) to the Western audiences and another thing (the truth) among themselves in Arabic.
https://youtu.be/9-umTdeh_bQ
Of course, among Palestinians there were people who lived on that land for centuries. Most of them had ancesstors who were either Jews (majority) or Samarians or Arameans, or Druse or other Levant minorities who were converted to Muslim religion by Arab envaders at a threat of death. Basically convert or die. So much…. or so little for your “indigenous people” argument. lol
p.s. The most famous “Palestinian”, Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt and spoke with heavy Egyptian accent
Your argument fails on two grounds: 1) The acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible under international law. 2) You claim the Arabs started the war, but by the time the Arab states intervened in Palestine, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes by the Zionist forces.
Jeremy said:
“The acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible under international law. ”
This works only if BOTH parties respect international law. If one side has a history/culture/ religion of genocidal conquest – for those who are REALLY slow, I’m talking about Muslim Arabs – then International law doesn’t apply unless you don’t care about your own survival. You knew that, Jeremy, didn’t you?
Jeremy said:
“You claim the Arabs started the war, but by the time the Arab states intervened in Palestine, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes by the Zionist forces.”
Your sources, please… I hope you’re not going to give me a link to Finkelstein’s videos or neo-nazi forum. lol
That is correct. The acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible under international law.
Benny Morris, 1948. Ilan Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. The New York Times.
Again, by the time the Arab states sent their armies into Palestine, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes.
Jeremy, I was hoping that you’d address the video where Palestinians admit they came to Palestine from neighboring Arab countries which basically an admission of obvious…. there’s no such thing as Palestinian people.
Here it is again for your convenience. Start from 0:40 or so.
https://youtu.be/9-umTdeh_bQ
Are you trying to propagate the hoax claim that Palestine was unpopulated until the Jews arrived and made the desert bloom, and only then did the Arabs emigrate en masse to Palestine? Because it seems to me you are.
The truth, of course, is that Arabs were the large majority. The indigenous Jewish population was small. By the end of the Madate, it had grown to about a third of Palestine’s population, with Arabs still the majority. Growth of the Jewish population was mainly through immigration, whereas the increase of the Arab population was mainly natural growth.
Jeremy- and more than 200 villages and some urban centres were either destroyed, re-inhabited with Jews, property destroyed or stolen, farmland produce stolen or destroyed, land ‘acquired’.The catalogue of Zionist iniquity at this time , is overwhelming. To balance it- the Arabs , when the opportunity arose certainly did their share of killing. But the Zionist forces in the main claim their actions were in self defence and still do to this day. I think Golda Mayer said that attack was the best neans of defence!
Yes, I am aware that Zionists still try to defend the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Of course, you and I know it was an indefensible crime against humanity.
Jeremy- I just added that for the benefit of other readers who have been doubting what you say occurred
I can give you several thousand incidences. In fact, what do you think these “settlements” are that you can’t stop building?
Thousands? Wow, but you can not give one? The settlements are built on publicly owned land, they are not now nor have ever been under private ownership, in the Oslo 2 accords, Israel was given 100% control of all administrative policies in Area C, this is the only place the settlements have been built.
So if you are going to make claims, back them up, or you are nothing but another idiot spouting off hot air.
1. I can’t name one but thousands, and that is the point. There is a limit to how much I can write in one stretch. Safad of course is a recent example and the expansion in the Naqab.
2. This “publicly owned lands” and the messed up Oslo accords which recognise Israel’s legitimacy is part of the problem in the first place. It’s because of organisations like the UN and official recognition such as the Balfour Declaration that this monster has come into existence!
The fact is, you cannot morally justify driving thousands of people out of their homeland based on a bunch of lies. It doesn’t matter what the UN or another organisation say, it is basically immoral.
You clearly demonstrate the perfidy, greed and insanity of Zionism. Own it.
Tbenton62-you will realize the complete falsity of your assertion of not being thrown out of their homes …and Jews moving in. You will obtain some truth of these events in reading Rosemarie Esber’s book Undercover of War which is replete with evidence from many sources. There are of course many other histories to substantiate her evidence. There is no slander involved, just some very painful history.
Chris’s implied argument (the Arab population in Israel has increased, therefore Arabs were not ethnically cleansed from Palestine in 1948) is a non sequitur.
Your stupidity is obvious.So is your bias.If the mob you pimp for hadn’t attacked their neighbours in 1947 (and 1920,1921,1929,1936-39) they wouldn’t have gotten the boot or run away.That’s what happens when you start-and lose-a war of extermination.Any more stupid comments?
It’s one thing to try to justify ethnic cleansing. It’s another to do so on the basis of a false historical narrative; the truth being that by the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine.
The attacks your friends carried out against their Jewish neighbours in 1920,1921,1929,1936-39 are not a false historical narrative.They actually happened.So are the attacks your friends launched in late 1947 and 1948- beginning with the murder of 7 Jews on a bus on Nov.30,1947.Denying them places you in the same category as holocaust deniers.And,of course,the Arab League,was involved in the 1948 war long before May 14,1948.Kawukji’s Arab “Deliverance Army”-was funded ,trained,and organized by the Arab League.It consisted mostly of Syrians with some Iraqis and Lebanese volunteers.(Kawukji,himself,was Lebanese.)It began hostilities in January 1948.
As you clearly know nothing about the 1948 war,I shall not waste my time responding futher to your stale lies.
The attacks you speak of in the 1920s and 1930s were not the result of some inherent Arab hatred of Jews. On the contrary, Jews and Arabs got along as neighbors until the Zionists came and began expropriating the land from Arab peasants and evicting them. The Arabs recognized the Zionists’ aims of eventually displacing them from the land and establishing their own “Jewish state” in the place of Palestine.
As for the attack on the bus on November 30, 1947, as the Haganah’s own intelligence wing assessed, that was carried out in retaliation for the murder of five members of the Shubaki family the week prior by the Jewish terrorist organization Lehi.
And that is what I mean when I refer to your false narrative. Cherry picking from the historical narrative like that to support this narrative that the Arabs were entirely responsible for starting the 1948 war serves only to illustrate your own dishonesty and hypocrisy.
Ah,so those massacres (of Jews) did take place after all.Btw,how exactly did the murder of 67 ultra-orthodox Jews in Hebron in 1929 advance Arab national interests?And,of course,every sane person knows the Arabs were totally responsible for the start of the 1948 war which actually started with the massacre on the bus (Nov.30,1947) followed by the looting of the Jewish commercial section in Jerusalem (Dec.1-3,1947)iUnless you are clinically insane (possible) you know that too.You merely regret that your side lost.Tough.
I defer to my previous comment.
it wasnt ethnic cleansing they were encouraged to leave by other arab nations quit spouting your lies
It was ethnic cleansing, your untenable denial notwithstanding:
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/11/14/benny-morriss-untenable-denial-of-the-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestine/
Between march 48 and 15th may 48 , 200 Palestinian villages were totally demolished and ethnically cleansed and ca half of all refugees were already expelled forcefully by zionist gangs before the war . The arabs entered the war after 15th may. your comment ,as well as the zionist propaganda about this myth , make it the 11th myth in this column. I hope Jeremy ,thankfully , will add it.
Can you provide a link to a TRUSTED source (Your local Imam doesn’t count, sorry)
I dont think, the Israeli and the jew, Ilan Pappé (Historian) is my Imam. Read his book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine , you can find pdf in google. Your zionist media propaganda will not help you, sorry. Seek the truth.
It’s very easy to tell Israeli/Palestinian narrative where one side is described as “villain” and the other side as “angel”. Illan Pappe – Israeli historian – took upon himself a job of describing the conflict from the point of view of the other side (Palestinian Arabs) in order to educate an average Israeli. That’s what educated Jews do… they try to understand the conflict from both sides. What stupid people and Muslim propagandists do is present what Illian Pappe wrote as the “ONLY HISTORIC TRUTH”. You, Arabs, seem to be incapable of looking at any conflict from both sides’ point of view. …untill you do, you always be a victim of your own stupidity.
Alex, you are banned for your bigotry. You condescendingly asked Mohamad for a source, and he provided you with one, which you seem to accept as credible yet still insisted on replying to him with bigoted insults.
Pappe’s book is not the “ONLY HISTORIC TRUTH” , but it is one of many books that confirms the “TRUTH” that have been told by thousands of witness testimonies who survived the Nakba since 1948.
Mohamed–also The book ‘Undercover of War’ by Rosemarie Esber will describe and support all Hammond says about the expulsion of Palestinians and destruction and theft of their property and land in 1947-8 before the invasion of neighbouring Arab statesin 1948. Terror was the driving force behind these activities.
and you know this…. how? Your sources, please.
The fact that a quarter million Arabs had already been made refugees prior to the entrance of Arab armies into the war isn’t even the least bit controversial.
Actually they left not at the hands of the Jews, but at the hands of their fellow Arabs, who told them to leave, then refused to allow them to return, seems Jeremy, you do not have a very good grasp on facts.
But let’s not do what you do, make claims without backing them up, OK.
“The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead they abandoned them, forced them to immigrate and to leave their home land, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them. The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinians and in destroying their unity.
abu-mazen (Falastin el-Th’ora,beirut, march 1976)
Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, agreed that Arab leadership encouraged Palestinians to temporarily leave their homes:
“It was promised that conquering Palestine would be a military picnic, our advice to the Palestinians was to temporarily leave their homes” (Al-Huda, Lebanon June 5th, 1951).
Syrian Prime Minister, Khalid Al-Azam (in his book Memories, 1973) laments and writes:
“We brought disaster on the refugees, when we urged them to abandon their homes”
Kind of funny even the Arab leaders admit as much.
How ironic of you to suggest I haven’t “a very good grasp on facts” while yourself regurgitating old Zionist propaganda scholars have long since stopped taking seriously.
Once again, the “Jewish state” of Israel was established by ethnically cleansing 700,000 Arabs from their homes. Whether they fled out of fear of further massacres like at Deir Yassin or were directly expelled by the Zionist forces, Israel refused to respect their right to return to their homes. Indeed, they made sure that would be impossible by wiping entire Arab villages right off the map.
As for quotes, here are a few more for you: Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami, writing in the journal Foreign Affairs, quotes David Ben-Gurion in the midst of the war saying, ” The Arabs of the Land of Israel have only one function left to them—to run away.” Then Ben-Ami adds:
“My approach to the solution of the question of the Arabs in the Jewish state is their transfer to Arab countries.”
“I am for compulsory transfer. I do not see anything immoral in it.”
— David Ben-Gurion, 1938
“A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them.” — Israeli historian Benny Morris
Seriously, Benny Morris, the totally discredited idiot, that is the best you can do. The fact is the Arabs chose to side with the Fellow Arabs in their attempt to not grab power, but to remove all Jews from the land, they lost.
“I personally wish that the Jews do drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.”
– Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League
(Akhbar al-Yom, Egypt, October 11, 1947; quoted in David Barnett and Efraim Karsh, “Azzam’s Genocidal Threat,” Middle East Quarterly, Fall 2011)
“If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea… Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state… But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.”
– Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder
(New York Times, August 2, 1948)
They not only did this once, but were also part of the Arab military in 1967 and 1973, or did you conveniently forget that as well?
We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated.”
– Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, January 16, 1967; quoted in Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War [Oxford University Press, 2002], p. 42)
“We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel’s death and annihilation.”
– Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 16, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p. 82)
“It is our chance, Arabs, to direct a blow of death and annihilation to Israel and all its presence in our Holy Land. It is a war for which we are waiting and in which we shall triumph.”
– Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 19, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p. 105).
In the wars they were moving for the total annihilation of Israel, and please, do not start with the revisionist nonsense that Israel started the wars, even in 1967 the Arabs started this with the blockade of the Red Sea through the Straights of Turin, they openly knew this would lead to a war.
We knew that by closing the Gulf of Aqaba it might mean war with Israel. [If war comes] it will be total and the objective will be to destroy Israel.”
– Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Washington Post, May 27, 1967)
“With the closing of the Straits [of Tiran], Israel faces two possibilities, both of which are blood-soaked: either it will die by strangulation in the wake of the Arab military and economic blockade, or it will die by shooting from the Arab forces surrounding it in the south, north and east.”
– Egyptian government broadcast
(Radio Cairo, May 27, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p. 79)
Here is the problem with your narrative, it has no bases in facts. Also, remember the Geneva Convention and international law, they cover when a country goes to war to seize land, seems this was not the case in 1967, otherwise why did Israel hand back the Sinai to Egypt?
Sorry, not buying it, this is as bad as the lie that somehow magically the Palestinians appeared, yet neither you nor anyone else can give one shred of evidence, either from historical accounts, documented eye witness account, or from census that mentions them prior to 1900, the simple fact is there has been ZERO archaeological finds to date to support this myth we are being fed, this is a totally impossibility, the Arabs migrated to the land in the 1800’s and early 1900’s, the same time the Jews did, the Jews were willing to share, the Arabs in typical manner demanded it all, lost and now have nothing.
Seriously? Dismissive ad hominem argumentation in lieu of addressing the documented facts of how the idea of “compulsory transfer” (as Ben-Gurion called it) was deeply ingrained in Zionist thinking, how the removal Arabs was a prerequisite for their “Jewish state” to be established, how hundreds of thousands of Arabs fled out of fear of further massacres like that at Deir Yassin or were directly expelled by Zionist forces, how hundreds of Arab villages were literally wiped off the map to ensure their inhabitants could never return to their homes, and how Israel to this day refuses to respect the right of refugees to return to their homeland?
It was the Jews who ethnically cleansed the Arabs of Palestine, not vice versa.
The comments section is intended to promote serious discussion. Inasmuch as you are only interested in parroting old Zionist propaganda, trolling, and otherwise violating the terms of use of the comments section, your privileges are revoked.
Wow someone presents information that does not side with yours, and you revoke their right to comment? Are you kidding me? The dark side of “academia” – you can justify anything. One thing this conflict has taught us, is that everyone has their own opinions…
No. The person was not banned for presenting information contrary to what I’ve written, but for demonstrating a lack of seriousness by resorting to ad hominem argumentation in lieu of substantively addressing the facts presented, which happens to be a violation of the terms of use of the comments section of this site, and otherwise engaging in trolling behaviors, i.e., demonstrating willful ignorance of the historical facts. The comments section is intended for serious discussion and debate. The person was not serious, but just another Zionist troll copying and pasting the usual propaganda talking points.
You are a dumb fck. There has never one time in the history of time been a country called Palestine. The land was desolate and trash before Israel came in and look at it now. Arguably the most advanced country in the world in regards to tech and you fight for people who live with a backwards ideology. You are a piece of human filth.
Jeremy wrote:
“how hundreds of thousands of Arabs fled out of fear of further massacres like that at Deir Yassin”.
Please, don’t tell me you swallowed Deir Yassin “massacre” lie. It was a battle that was exagurated out of proportion by both Arabs and Israelis (of course, for different reasons). Yes, not only Arabs lied, but Isralis had reasons to lie, too.
Watch this OLD video:
https://youtu.be/72Ata-hY9WQ
Alex, denying that a massacre occurred at Deir Yassin is simply willful ignorance. It is not the least bit controversial that a massacre occurred, outside of fringe circles like Zionist trolls.
The entire Jewish holocaust was masterminded by the Muslim Arabs, the friends of the Socialist Nazis in their common hatred for Jews.
Jewish holocaust is mongered in the Quran as the duty of all Muslims.
good, but were you there? You say one side spouts propaganda, how can we know its not the violence, hate filled arabs that are making the propaganda?
If you wish to willfully ignore the facts I have provided you, that is your prerogative.
Witness00-the facts of the atrocity, although initially exaggerated by both sides, were bad enough . A variety of independent witnesses saw the aftermath, about 100 odd dead bodies, mainly women and children. It certainly disturbed the Jewish leadership. The Wikipedia account is quite thorough and worth reading. This Jewish atrocity was not unique. There were more than 20 others, well documented in the Israeli archives. There is not historical dispute about these occurrences except in the nitty-gritty detail. You don’t have to have been there to understand how historiographical accounts are researched and assembled and get some understanding of what actually happened.
tbenton62- you need to read what happened to plenty of Arabs at the hands of the Jewish forces, other than fighters, when they refused to abandon their homes.
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False.
Res 181 entailed NOT a single Arab being displaced.
There would be a Majority (as of 1947 stats) Jewish state and a near 100% Arab one beside it.
It was the Arab started WAR that created any refugees.
Further, ROOKIE, Fully HALF of what became Israel was the thought-useless, near-empty, Negev Desert for size viability.
IOW, though 1/3 of the people Jews, got 55% of the land, Half of that was wasteland.
IOW, The 1/3 Jews got 27% of the usable land.
Further, 2/3 of what became Israel, (incl the Half that was the Negev) was State Land under the Ottomans (miri), owned by NO Arab.
Passing from the Ottomans to the British to the Jews.
Amateur Leftists and ant-semites are annoying.
I repeat: “By the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military
response, a quarter of a million Arab Palestinians had already been
ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces.”
Which historical fact has nothing at all to do with Resolution 181, beyond the fact that the Zionists falsely cited it as granting legitimacy to their unilateral declaration of statehood, as discussed at length in the article above.
“By the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arab Palestinians had already been ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces.”
Did they manage to do all that in lees than one day….?
On May 15, 1948, the day the British Mandate over Palestine ended, the armies of five neighboring Arab states invaded the new State of Israel, which had declared its independence the previous day. The invasion, heralded by an Egyptian air attack on Tel Aviv, was vigorously resisted. From the north, east and south came the armies of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Egypt.
The invading forces were fully equipped with the standard weapons of a regular army of the time – artillery, tanks, armoured cars and personnel carriers, in addition to machine guns, mortars and the usual small arms in great quantities, and full supplies of ammunition, oil, and gasoline. Further, Egypt, Iraq, and Syria had air forces. As sovereign states, they had no difficulty (as had the pre-state Jewish defense force) in securing whatever armaments they needed through normal channels from Britain and other friendly powers.
In contrast, the Jews had no matching artillery, no tanks, and no warplanes in the first days of the war. Some supplies of these weapons arrived in the days that followed, however, and turned the tide. Little more than small arms – in paucity- had been available to the Haganah which on May 28, 1948, was to merge with other Jewish defense groups to form the Israel Defense Forces. Two Jewish defense forces, the Irgun Zeva’i Le’ummi and the Lohamei Herut Israel agreed to cease their independent activities, (except in Jerusalem) and to absorb their members into the newly founded IDF.
Invaded from all directions, Israel had to cope with the outbreak of a thousand fires, and to do so with limited means. Numerous settlement outposts in the Galilee and the Negev were isolated, open on all sides to Arab attack, and had to rely on their own perseverance and meager armories to stave off defeat. The hastily mobilized army had to engage in offensive action to remove the enemy from key positions, block the advance of their columns, and rush to seal gaps in Israel’s defenses.
The statement that neighboring Arab states “invaded the new State of Israel” assumes that the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of its existence was legitimate. It patently wasn’t. The Arab states acted to defend the rights and property of the Arab Palestinians, though they were ineffective in stemming the ethnic cleansing already underway.
As for this narrative that the Zionists were some kind of David against an Arab Goliath, it is irrelevant to the point, but…
“[T]he Arab leaders–except Jordan’s [i.e., the Arab Legion]–did almost nothing to prepare their armies for war.”
“The Arab military had done no proper planning or intelligence work….”
“[T]he Haganah enjoyed a superiority in both quality and quantity of manpower, unity of command, and relatively short lines of communications…. By and large, the Haganah had better trained, more capable commanders….”
“[The Arab] Legion had no tanks and only seven to eight thousand soldiers…. The Arab armies were much smaller and severely underequipped….”
“[T]he Israelis [were] handily winning the manpower race.”
“[T]he Haganah,-an underground organization well versed in the clandestine arts-fashioned secret arms procurement networks in Europe rope and the Americas during 1947 and early 1948. Yishuv fundraisers managed aged to raise some $129 million, in cash and pledges, from Jews abroad to bankroll the war effort. The Yishuv spent some $78.3 million of this on arms purchases between October 1947 and March 1949.127 As we have seen, these networks concluded a series of deals with Czechoslovakia, which was hungry for American dollars, and with private dealers, and shipments began to arrive in Palestine from the end of March 1948, the bulk of the arms, including heavy weaponry, arriving after Israel’s declaration of statehood. The arrival of the Czech light weapons in March through May and of artillery pieces and armored vehicles in May through July proved crucial to the Haganah/IDF victories both over the Palestinian Arabs and the invading armies. Obversely, the failure of the Arab states to obtain additional armor, aircraft, guns, and ammunition, particularly for its artillery and mortars, proved crucial in the Arab shift after May and June to the defensive and to the subsequent Arab defeats.”
“The Legion had no tanks or aircraft. By May 1949 it consisted of fourteen thousand soldiers. The Legion was short of ammunition, especially for its artillery and mortars, and suffered severely from the British arms embargo.”
— Benny Morris, 1948
“The statement that neighboring Arab states “invaded the new State of Israel” assumes that the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of its existence was legitimate. It patently wasn’t.”
Well 148 countries recognise the State of Israel as the reality that it is….
Israel is as “legitimate” as any country….
And the fact is that on the day it declared Statehood….Israel was attacked by a combined 5 Arab armies….not the other way round….
It was the surrounding arab countries that sought to wipe Israel from the map and drive all the jews into the sea….not the other way round….
And after losing that war….and again in 67….Palestinians have been waging a war of terror against Israelis ever since….
Disgusting really….
Yet the fact remains that Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel on May 14, 1948 had no legitimacy.
What legitimacy does any country have ?
148 countries seem to live in the real world….and that’s good enough for me….
Back to the point, by the time the Zionists unilaterally declared the existence of the “Jewish state” on land mostly belonging Arabs and the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces.
Israel exists….and 148 countries recognise it’s existence….that is all….
Yes, Israel exists because in 1948 the Zionists unilaterally declared the existence of a “Jewish state” on land that wasn’t theirs and ethnically cleansed Palestine of most of its Arab inhabitants to make it a reality.
A false statement, Jeremy. See my response above.
The facts are as I’ve stated them. See my response to your response.
There is not proof that it belonged to the Palestinians BUT let us assume you are right. It belonged to them because they were there??????
AMERICA IS AN ILLEGAL ENTITY BUILT ON STOLEN NATIVE SOIL. DEPART AT ONCE !!!!!
You can never get these people to believe anything that doesn’t involve the degradation of Israel. Its been going on since Isaac & Ishmael’ were born. They are blinded to the truth and nothing can change their corrupted minds. May God have mercy on their souls.
I invite you to produce an actual argument to address the facts to support your view. It would seem to behoove you to do so, considering you are accusing others of being “blind”. I would propose that it is you who is willfully ignorant.
Yes, the US, too, was established through means that included the ethnic cleansing of the native population.
Do you think that somehow changes the fact that Israel is occupying Palestinian territory and building settlements illegally on their land?
Jeremy- There is so much conflicting information on this topic. Do you have references to support your claims? How had a quarter of a million arabs been ethnically cleansed while palestine was under british rule? Can you provide more information and documentation?
That a quarter million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed by the end of the Mandate is not controversial. Much of this article is pulled from my book The Rejection of Palestinian Self-Determination, which is fully footnoted, and which you can get here (see the last chapter, specifically, on the ethnic cleansing. I also go into it in more detail in my forthcoming book, Obstacle to Peace: The US Role in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict):
http://www.jeremyrhammond.com/product/the-rejection-of-palestinian-self-determination/
I also recommend Ilan Pappe’s The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
Thank you for the follow up Jeremy. I realize I could buy your book, and would like to for more details, but I was hoping for a clarifier of what you mean by a quarter of a million arabs being ethically cleansed before the mandate. What exactly happened? The british round them up and executed them? The existing jew population went on murder expeditions in the night? They spread disease that uniquely killed off the arab population? Stating simply a quarter million of the arab population had been ethnically cleansed doesn’t say how or why or under what circumstances. Did this all happen the year before the mandate, or is the quarter of a million a number accumulated from 1920’s on? Its such an important point, and yet there are no details about it in your essay.
Maria, it was not a genocide, but an ethnic cleansing; and it wasn’t carried out by the British, but by the Zionist forces. The time period is from December 1947 until May 14, 1948. By that time, 300,000 Arabs had already been cleansed from Palestine.
That a quarter million Arabs had been ethnically cleansed from Palestine by May 14, 1948 is not controversial. It started in December 1947 and continued until the armistice agreements in 1949. Arabs were expelled from their homes or fled out of fear of additional massacres by the Zionist forces.
It was an ethnic cleansing, not a genocide (although, certainly, there were massacres, such as at Deir Yassin).
You’re so Wrong and yet everybody are explaining to You the True Facts but You still deny sadly it!
It’s you who’s denying the facts, which are as I’ve stated them. If you wish to challenge what I’ve said, you are welcome to produce an argument and to substantiate it.
I suppose it makes no difference to you that Bir Zeit University published a monograph in 1988, the result of several years of study and interviewing survivors from Deir Yassin, reaching the conclusion that there was no massacre and that Deir Yassin was a pitched battle, with none of the aftermath of murders and rapes claimed actually happening.
Oddly enough, the BBC came to the same conclusion in their 1998 documentary “50 Years of War”.
Since neither of these sources could be considered “biased” in Israel’s favor, you might want to re-think using Deir Yassin as any kind of “proof”.
In addition, the April 2, 1998 issue of the Jerusalem Report revealed that Hazem
Nusseibeh, the editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service’s Arabic news in
1948, admitted that he was instructed by Palestinian leader Hussein Khalidi to
falsify the claims of atrocities at Deir Yassin with the intent to encourage
Arab regimes to attack Israel.
Nusseibeh said he
met with survivors of Deir Yassin and with Hussein Khalidi and in collusion
with them created the story. He said he recalled that Khalidi said to him: “We
must make the most of this.”
Nusseibeh
wrote the press release which stated that the children of Deir Yassin were
murdered and pregnant women were raped. It never happened. Nussbieh also
claimed that their attempt at goading the Arab countries to “defend” the Arabs
of Palestine backfired on them, causing a massive exodus of Arabs from
Palestine, fearing that the same thing they thought had happened at Deir Yassin
would happen to them.
The guy denying that there was a massacre at Deir Yassin” says of someone else “your credibility is gone entirely”. Such irony.
Of course you’ll deny the findings of Bir Zeit University and the BBC, claiming you know better, but one has to wonder how you come by that arrogance.
Any person who read the accounts and sees that one-third of
the attacking force were casualties has to understand that it was a pitched battle. Of course, those who have never been in combat but only read the propaganda handouts that were debunked by the man who wrote them, Hazem Nussbieh, has to deny the facts of the case as determined by a Palestinian source (Bir Zeit University) that came to the conclusion that Deir Yassin was a pitched battle, have to deny the truth because it doesn’t fit their narrative.
You go farther and farther out on a limb with your credibility. No irony needed here.
You conflate the Deir Yassin on the ground with the Deir Yassin of Arab scare propaganda. It was the latter that prompted Arabs to flee. The Jewish population endured massacres without fleeing.
How wonderfully instructive it is that you’ve just declared that I presented an “Arab scare propaganda” version of the Deir Yassin massacre despite me having given no details about it, other than to simply observe that it occurred. This makes one wonder what the Zionist propaganda version of it must look like. I guess we’ve just witnessed what the response of a Zionist propagandist might be.
Arabs left for lots of reasons. Some of them moved to neighboring countries; others went elsewhere in Mandate Palestine. Hammond lumps them all together under the umbrella of nefarious Zionist ethnic cleansing.
I lump the Arabs who were ethnically cleansed by the Zionists together as Arabs who were ethnically cleansed by the Zionists because they were ethnically cleansed by the Zionists.
Anyone recommending Ilan Pappe as a trustworthy historian is delusional. Here’s what he himself had to say about his work:
“The debate between us is on one level between historians who believe they are purely objective reconstructers of the past, like [Benny] Morris, and those who claim that they are subjective human
beings striving to tell their own version of the past, like myself. (“Benny Morris’s Lies About My Book,” Ilan Pappé, Response to Morris’ critique of Pappé’s book, “A History of Palestine” published in the New Republic, March 22, 2004, History News Network, April 5, 2004)
Ilan Pappe has repeatedly and openly eschewed historical facts in favor of ideology, stating, for example, “Indeed the struggle is about ideology, not about facts, Who knows what facts are? We try to convince as many people as we can that our interpretation of the facts is the correct one, and we do it because of ideological reasons, not because we are truthseekers” (Le Soir, Nov. 29, 1999).
If this is the kind of work you recommend, then your own credibility is seriously in doubt, sir. I, for one, have grave reservations about accepting the words written by a self-confessed writer of historical fiction who was fired from his position as a tenured professor at the University of Haifa for academic dishonesty on defending the Master’s thesis of a student about a massacre that never took place.
“It is impossible to evade it. Without uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish
state would not have arisen here…. A Jewish state would not have come into
being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary
to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population….” — Benny Morris
There was never any need for mass expulsions. Even Mahmoud
Abbas admitted that his family and many others left Safed in December 1947 out of fear of Jewish reprisals for the family’s participation in the Safed massacre of 1929 and the Arab Riots of 1936 to 1939.
“Until the nakba” (calamity in Arabic – the loaded synonym for Israeli independence), he recounted, his family “was well-off in Safed.”
When Abbas was 13, “we left on foot at night to the Jordan River… Eventually we settled in Damascus… My father had money, and he spent his money methodically. After a year, when the money ran out, we began to work.
“People were motivated to run away… They feared retribution from Zionist terrorist organizations – particularly from the Safed ones. Those of us from Safed especially feared that the Jews harbored old desires to avenge what happened during the 1929 uprising. This was in the memory of our families and parents… They realized the balance of forces was shifting and therefore the whole town was abandoned on the basis of this rationale – saving our lives and our belongings.” (Al-Palestina TV, July 6, 2012)
Another interesting finding: According to a research report by the Arab-sponsored Institute for Palestine Studies in Beirut, “the majority of the Arab refugees in 1948 were not expelled”, and “68% left without seeing an Israeli soldier”.
These facts indicate that in the mind of the Palestinians, the “naqba” was not that they left their homes and could not return, but that the Jews weren’t slaughtered so they weren’t free to steal any
Jewish asset not already claimed by the invading armies.
In short, at least a considerable portion of the Palestinian
refugees were nothing of the sort—they were either fleeing in fear for their own lives, expecting “the Jews” to act the same way Arabs would have acted when the balance of power changed or they were waiting for the chance to steal whatever they could from their Jewish former neighbors—after making sure that the neighbors were dead.
You and your posts are long on unsupported lies and short on actual facts, and continue to enable the Palestinians into thinking that they’re justified in their demands for the destruction of Israel, and expect the world to support their genocidal intentions.
You aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
“Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not have arisen here.” — Benny Morris
Maria- the volume of evidence you require can be obtained from Esber’s book ‘Undercover of War’ and Morris’s books ‘1948’ and ‘The Origins of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited’. You will be impressed by the quality of evidence presented by these two authors alone. There are many more.The Brits stood by while the civil war raged. They were interested in their own retreat as safely as possible. Except for a couple of occasions they did not interfere.
193 countries, if you go by UN membership. Dr. Hammond’s point seems to be that a legitimacy test for nations exists somewhere out there, which conveniently only Israel has failed.
What an incredible effort you have made to not only not see my point, but to twist it beyond all recognition.
The extent of your dishonesty in producing such a strawman argument violates the terms of use of the comments section of this site, and I’ve no patience for trolls. Banned.
In which case neither did the American declaration of independence in 1776. Yours is the Red Queen’s version of “truth” – your “opinion” has no legitimacy.
This does not follow.
Of course it doesn’t “follow”, Jeremy. The American declaration came before the Israeli declaration. It preceded and therefore acts as a precedence, one of many.
The French and Russian revolutions were also “illegitimate”, and were far more bloody than the 1948 war of extermination against the Jews, which the Arabs, fortunate for them and for the Jews, lost.
My meaning is that your statement is a non sequitur. The situations are not parallel.
And the declaration of Independence on native soil is OK??
The invasion of America was not legitimate using your own reasoning. Return to the UK like a good waSSp
John the US and Israel are not parallel scenarios. For a lot of reasons, and I don’t have the time to detail all of them. While they both are examples of colonialism, the US was established 1776. Before there was such a thing as the UN, or sanctions for occupying land. They should give back land to the Native Americans, but so many years have past that “returning to the UK” is not an option. Most people who are in middle ground on this topic, do recognize Israel as a State and their right to live within the borders defined in 1948. Perhaps a more relevant analogy for the united states would be if the last 50 years the US had begun to encroach on Mexico. Taking mexican land as their own, oppressing the mexican people, bombing their infrastructure when the mexicans fought back, building a wall 15 miles past the boarder in order to take more land as property of the united states and for US citizens to live there. In that case, it would be similar to Israel and absolutely yes, it would be called illegal, illegitimate, and the US would be sanctioned by the UN. In that case, yes they should return the land, go back to the original boarders, and be charged with war crimes.
Maria, Israel “defined” it’s borders on 1948 by ethnically cleansing Palestine of most of its Arab population. The idea that Jews somehow had a “right” to do this to line within those borders as a “Jewish state” is contrary to both law and elementary moral principles.
Israel, as a state defined by the 1948 borders, was a dead letter after the Arab League waged “a war of extermination”, and lost. The Arabs committed the war crime.They have lost every war they waged, as well. The result should be that a victorious Israel exist with even the leftist anti-semites blessings–but they hate a story in which the Jews are not being mourned for being dead, apparently. I take it from your babble that you must not be an American. Might you look at history to know that native Americans-of which I am one–took land and encroached on one another, fought endless wars, and when the Europeans first came, they were French, Spanish, English, Danes, Dutch…there was no United States. Had the Cherokee Confederation had the resources, and the immunity, they would have murdered every visitor sooner or later, and headed to their lands to take over. Don’t think for a minute the story book Disney Pocahontas story is real. A Pleistocene culture was overtaken by superior technology, disease, and numbers. If you want to stop the relentless march of history, you would rally for a superior technological society–Israel persevering against a tribal cult funded by oil revenues–the Arabs and their mouth organs–this blog, the NYT and the BBC.
Israel was not a state legally defined by any borders. The unilateral declaration of the state of Israel by the Zionist leadership did not declare any borders and had no legitimacy.
Israel was established by ethnically cleansing 750,000 Arabs from Palestine.
You may repeat that statement again and again Jeremy, it’s still false on multiple levels. The Arab Liberation Army made up of foreign Arab volunteers and not a few former Nazi soldiers engaged in attacks on Jewish communities as early as January of 1948. Created by the Arab League it most certainly constituted a military response by the Arab League, as did the smuggling of arms to supporters of the Mufti.
The term “ethnic cleansing” does not apply to the Arab exodus that came later. Firstly, the original meaning of the term, as it emerged from from the wars in Yugoslavia was far harsher than the meaning to it assigned by Illan Pappe in his book, as the original definition had mass murder as a policy. That intent is more properly ascribed to the Arab factions controlled by Hajj Amin al Husseini and his allies in the Muslim Brotherhood, of Hassan al Bana. Whereas the policy of the Yishuv under Plan C in the period that you are referring to where some 250,000 Arabs fled was to act as the British did during the 1936-39 Arab insurrection, which meant establishing truces leaving non-belligerent villages alone.
Because the Israelis differentiated between friendly, neutral and hostile groups, the objective cannot and should not be qualified as “ethnic”. Another is that many “Palestinian Arabs” fled on their own, as Mahmoud Abbas’s own story testifies. They were part of regionally based extended families and they had properties in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, the west ban and TransJordan where they could sit out the conflict. The same phenomenon occurred between during 1936-39.
As you know, I am referring to the military response described routinely as the Arab states’ “invasion” of “Israel” following the May 14 declaration. As you know, regular Arab armies from neighboring states did not enter Palestine until after the Zionists’ unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel, by which time a quarter of a million Arab Palestinians had already been ethnically cleansed from their homeland.
Jeremy, let’s point out the obvious – that you’ve changed part of your story because your were demonstrably wrong: Previously you used to “muster a military response”, now you’ve altered it to to “regular Arab armies”. But we both know that Arab states sponsored the Arab Liberation Army in attacks that preceded the Arab flight. But if you don’t classify the ALA as “regular” army – what do you classify it as? Organized terrorism sponsored by belligerent Arab States? It’s still a “military response”.
Additionally the Jordanian Legion attacked Neve Yacob on April 18 and were involved in the assault (if not earlier) on Gush Etzion on May 4. If you check the map, both were well inside the Mandate for Palestine. What do you classify the Legion as, if not “regular army”.
You can add the above to my solid refutation of your remarks and more examples that what you think you know just isn’t true. FPJ is a cute vanity site for your offbase opinions, but that’s all it is.
The context of my statement is clear.
Again, by the time the Arab armies supposedly “invaded” Israel after its May 14 declaration, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from Palestine.
“Had been ethnically cleansed” — by whom, a Jewish population that barely exceeded half a million?
Yes.
Probably not the answer you were looking for, but, hey, ask about the obvious, get the obvious answer.
Your waSSp race displaced the natives of America. Be a good waSSp and return to your native land.
John, the Native America nations today have never asked the WASPs or any other non-native peoples to leave the US and return to their countries of origin! They have only asked the US Government to respect and live up to the treaties which it signed with the subjugated native American nations which it NEVER did! Instead it confined them to reservations which are mainly appalling places where the inhabitants suffer from the highest suicide, substance abuse, and domestic violence rates and the lowest life expectancy rates in the country. The same goes for the Mexican territories which the US Government conquered during the Mexican American War. The Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo committed the US to respect the linguistic and cultural rights of the native Mexican citizens who became US citizens by force of conquest and the US Government has done little to respect that treaties articles as well.
As a native Palestinian whose parents were ethnically cleansed by Zionist terrorist gangs before they were gunned down in cold blood as unarmed civilians in the early 1950s when I was a small boy, you and the other Zionist hacks whose comments are here speak only as propagandists of the AIPAC variety and not honest scholars of Palestinian history. You distort the facts of history which we have actually lived and there are many Jewish Israelis who share my point of view about what happened, but justify it on the grounds that Jews fleeing Europe had not other choice. Here in American you cretans dispute the historical facts that most Israelis and their declassified state and military archives have revealed since the 1980s. In other words wake the F–K up!
you “repeat” YOUR OWN BS AS IF it’s Canon:
“”””By the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arab Palestinians had already been ethnically cleansed by the Zionist forces.”
While NOT being able to refute ANYTHING I said.
I fail to see how stating the facts does not refute your falsehoods.
Just wondering — is there anything ever done by a Zionist that would win your approval, and anything done by an Arab party that you wouldn’t excuse?
Just wondering whether you have an argument, or if the strawman fallacy is the extent of it.
your waSSp race ethnically cleansed the natives from America and you are living on their land. Follow your words and return to the UK
Yet results are disappointing, in Arab countries there are 0 Jews and in Israel 1.6 million Arabs. Your words are equal to shit that comes out of toilet.
The State of Israel was created by Jews ridding the land of malaria, paying Arabs ransom sums for land, making the dessert bloom, and building new villages.
The best estimates today are that 500,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948 and that 70% of them left due to the Arab League telling them to get out of the way while the Jews were annihilated and then the Arabs could go back and take all their stuff.
Sorry, Jeremy, you’re on the wrong side of morality here.
The state of Israel was created by ethnically cleansing 700,000 Arabs from their homes in order to establish the demographically “Jewish state”.
The claim that most of them left because the Arab League ordered them to is tired old Zionist propaganda that scholars no longer take seriously. Most fled out of fear of further massacres like at Deir Yassin or were expelled by Zionist forces. It’s also a moot point, since the act of refusing to allow these refugees to return, regardless of the reasons they left, constitutes ethnic cleansing.
As for who is on the wrong side of morality, I am not the one trying to justify ethnic cleansing.
You are simply attempting to deflect from the fact that the state of Israel was created by ethnically cleansing 750,000 Arabs from Palestine.
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/11/14/benny-morriss-untenable-denial-of-the-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestine/
Cherry-picking the facts is one of the methods all propagandists love to use… and you’re no exception. Of course, the truth is never black and white. Yes, some Arabs were forcefully chased away by Israelis, some left on their own because of fear-mongering spread out by stupid Arab leaders. Don’t believe me? Listen to what Hazem Nusseibeh- Palestinian Arab who was in charge of Palestine Broadcasting Service at that time – had to say:
https://youtu.be/72Ata-hY9WQ
Some Palestinian Arabs chose to stay and currently enjoy all the benefits of Israeli citizenship. Presently they represent 20% of the Israel’s population
Alex, I repeat: by the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine.
Whether they were expelled or fled out of fear, they had a right to return to their homes and their homeland.
Jeremy, i think you got your timing – among other things. – WRONG. Arabs living in Palestine and in the neighboring Arab countries launched the war FIRST. Jews responded. Upper class and middle class Palestinian Arabs left on their own will. (Why woudn’t they? They knew Arab armies were going to invade. The news of coming Arab invasion were blasted through all Arab media outlets.) The poor stayed. Some of the poor fought against Jews and lost, (Why would Israelis allow them to come back to their homes?) Some Palestinian Arabs chose NOT to fight against Jews. They were not harmed during the war and now they enjoy Israeli citizenship.
You’re trying to paint a picture as if the Palestinian Arabs had nothing to do with the war between Jews and invading Arab armies. If you studied this conflict you MUST know that they fought against Jews on the side of the Arab armies. Why would Israelis allow them to come back? Americans of Japanese heritage did not fight on the side of Japan against Americans in the 2nd World War, yet they were forced into concentration camps. Now, why do you expect Israelis to allow their enemies – who lost the war – to come back?
No. I did not. As I said, by the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine.
By the time it was over, more than 700,000 Palestinian had been ethnically cleansed in order for the “Jewish state” to come into being. They had and have a right to return to their homeland.
Jeremy said:
” As I said, by the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, a quarter of a million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine.”
Please, support your statement with your sources.
According to your “theory”, Jews all of sudden went nuts and attack their Arab neighbours for no good reason. Has it occured to you that Palestinian Arabs – the ones living in Palestine – INITIATED and then actively PARTICIPATED in that war against Jews? They were not innocent civilians living in peace with their Jewish neighbours as you try to imply. (Some were… they chose peaceful co-existence, but majority were not.) Once again, you cherry pick historical facts to support your bias.
Benny Morris, 1948
Ilan Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
The New York Times
I did not propose any theory. I stated a documented historical fact, which is that by the time the Arab states sent their armies into Palestine, over a quarter million Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes by the Zionist forces.
I did not assert that the Zionists perpetrated this crime for no reason, but you are certainly right to draw the conclusion that they had no good reason. It was unjustifiable.
Didn’t you forget to mention, 850,000+ Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries?
Oh, wait… i forgot… This doesn’t serve your PROPAGANDISTIC agenda.
You ask as though the expulsion of Jews from Arab states in some way changed something I said.
It does not.
Palestinians are not responsible for what happens in other states. There was not conflict between Jews and Palestinians until the Zionists came in mid 1800s and started taking Palestinian land then,
You are doing a lot of mud-slinging that in no way justifies Israel’s massacres of Palestinians and the expulsions and theft of land.
This is a lie, since there have always been raiding bands of muslims attacking the Jews and Christians in the Middle East, ever since the evil of islam arose.
The biggest myth here is that the conflict only began in 1948. All that happened in 1948 was the supremacist and imperialist, and racist, fascist outrage of muslims that their dhimmi jews, whom have and still are serving islam’s evil agenda, dared to break away and create their own country in the ancient homeland of the Jews. And then on top of it have been superior in strength to the muslim jihadists. This is such an outrage.
To prove my point, look up some of those videos displaying the disgusting racist and evil behaviour of the muslims on the temple mount. There you see and even smell the desperate fear of the fake religion of islam.
Please get an education. You can’t even get your propaganda right.
You do realize that Palestinians are Jewish and Christian too, don’t you?
Not a good move. You shouldn’t remind people that there are those who call you, “Synagogue of Satan”.
“Start taking Palestinian land” Do you even have a clue? This land was belong to Turks when Israel started to buy every piece of the land from land owners? There was no country to “steal” the land from, it was belong to TURKS later to Brits.
Up until 6 days war 1967 “Palestinians” were part of the Jordan. There was no talking about any “Palestinian” state because JORDAN is a “Palestine” but renamed. 90% of Jordan are “Palestinians”.
I’m sorry, but you don’t really know the history. I’ve studied this for over 30 years. Palestinians owned the land. They self governed the land.
They paid taxes to the Turks until Britain took over. They’ve lived on the land for centuries. They have the deeds. I’ve seen a deed that proved ownership for over 800 years. That building is now the Jewish-Arab Centre in Haifa just below the Ba’Hai Temple.
Then there was the land Israel took that was ‘given’ to the Palestinians by the UN.
Palestinians were there long before the Six Day War and they are not Jordanians. There are many Jordanians in Palestine as refugees, but they are still Palestinians.
Please do some study and not just read the propaganda.
It did not “belong” to the Turks. They oversaw it. Palestine was a suzerain. But Palestinians had deeds to their own property. They also largely governed themselves. “Ottoman control in the 18th century was indirect. ” Encyclopedia Britannica
What you say is like saying I don’t own my house because the United States governs the land. The logic is faulty.
Palestinians in the mid-1800s? No Palestinian consciousness existed until 1916, when Sykes and Picot uncoupled Turkish Palestine from its capital in Damascus.
The US presidential candidates continued to try to outdo each other in professing their devotion to Israel and support for its criminal policies. “Support for Israel has become something of a litmus test for evangelical Christians in early voting states”, the New York Times observed. “One reason Republicans seek to sound serious on Israel is to appeal to evangelical Christians”, in addition to “Jewish voters”, the Times also noted. The headline informed, “GOP Candidates, at Jewish Coalition, Pledge to Be Israel’s Best Friends”. Candidate Rick Santorum was eager enough for votes to declare that “all the people who live in the West Bank are Israeli; they’re not Palestinians. There is no ‘Palestinian.’ This is Israeli land.” Newt Gingrich tried to one-up Santorum by saying that they were “an invented Palestinian people” who “had a chance to go many places” very early on. They should have taken that opportunity to leave their homes and their land to make room for “the Jewish people”, who, unlike invented peoples, “have the right to have a state”. When his comments were raised during a presidential debate, he defended them as “factually correct” and “historically true”. This prompted commendations from others equally proud of their bigotry. “I jumped up out of my chair and cheered for Newt”, former New York City mayor Rudolph Giuliani exulted on Fox News. Guiliani added that it was not in “the interest of the United States of America” for the Palestinians to exercise self-determination.
As for historical truth, Gingrich was appealing to the ignorance of the substantial population of conservative Christian Zionists by mindlessly parroting racist Zionist propaganda dating to before Israel’s existence. In May 1918, as previously noted, Chaim Weizmann contended in a letter to Lord Arthur Balfour that “the democratic principle” must be applied to Palestine to resolve the growing conflict between Jews and Arabs. There were “five Arabs to one Jew”, so “the brutal numbers operate against us”, and the “present state of affairs would necessarily tend towards the creation of an Arab Palestine, if there were an Arab people in Palestine.” His meaning was not that there were no Arabs inhabiting the land. He had, after all, just acknowledged that they were a large majority. Rather, he meant that they didn’t meet the criteria for a “people”. Hence their right to self-determination could be denied under this racist and colonialist application of “the democratic principle”. In 1936, David Ben-Gurion, head of the Labor faction of the Zionist movement, similarly declared that “there is no conflict between Jewish and Palestinian nationalism because the Jewish Nation is not in Palestine and the Palestinians are not a nation.” It was this racist sentiment Prime Minister Golda Meir was invoking when she infamously remarked in 1969, “It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.”
— excerpt from my forthcoming book Obstacle to Peace: The US Role in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
Sign up to stay updated about the book and get a free e-book to boot: http://www.jeremyrhammond.com/free-ebook-palestine-conflict/
Not true. Palestine goes back to the 12th Dynasty of Egypt time.
At least you grant there was a Palestine in 1916. Most say it didn’t exist till the 1970s.
But if you go to the Jewish Virtual Library and see their population studies, you will see how many Palestinians were in the land. (and they did have a Palestinian consciousness then, although there was a time when Nader tried to convince All arabs as a single entity. Never happened.)
Yes Google all the Hasbara Zionist cultist lies….Or you could simply watch what the Zionists did to Gaza last year or perhaps read a real historical document one that exposes the Zionists as Not Jewish and using the Jews as a human shield….It is so disgusting to me when I know that the Zionist pact with Hitler in 1933 led directly to the death Of Millions of real Jews and the Zionist non Jews still today try to confuse their enemies by pretending to be Jewish… The Zionists created the Holocaust they now use to give reasons to Kill Muslims so Ironically slaughtering Millions of Jews they now slaughter millions of Arabs….They are the true anti semites as the Palestinian Muslims, Christians and Jews are the True semites.Being anti Zionist is not anti Jewish. I often draw attention to the terrible way the Zionists treats the Jewish Palestinians in Jerusalem and the way they slander any anti Zionist Jews on the internet. Please read the Jewish Historian Lenni Brenners book 51 Documents… there is no hiding from the signatures of the Chief Zionists and Adolf Hitler. This actual document makes most of those crazy posts above even more ridiculous!
The last word of your post captures everything preceding.
“No Jew is entitled to give up the right of establishing [i.e. settling] the Jewish Nation in all of the Land of Israel. No Jewish body has such power. Not even all the Jews alive today [i.e. the entire Jewish People] have the power to cede any part of the country or homeland whatsoever. This is a right vouchsafed or reserved for the Jewish Nation throughout all generations. This right cannot be lost or expropriated under any condition or circumstance. Even if at some particular time, there are those who declare that they are relinquishing this right, they have no power nor competence to deprive coming generations of this right. The Jewish nation is neither bound nor governed by such a waiver or renunciation. Our right to the whole of this country is valid, in force and endures forever. And until the Final Redemption has come, we will not budge from this historic right.”
BEN-GURION’S DECLARATION ON THE EXCLUSIVE AND
INALIENABLE JEWISH RIGHT TO THE WHOLE OF
THE LAND OF ISRAEL:
at the Basle Session of the 20th Zionist Congress at Zurich (1937)
Arabs expelled the Jews from all their countries.
The Jewish exodus from Arab lands refers to the 20th century expulsion or mass departure of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Islamic countries. The migration started in the late 19th century, but accelerated after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. According to official Arab statistics, over 989,000 Jews were forced out of their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970’s. Some 600,000 resettled in Israel, [1] leaving behind personal property valued today at more than $990 billion.[2][3] Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands has been estimated at 120,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the State of Israel). Valued today at about 15 trillion dollars [4]
Not abused? I feel like swearing here. you can bet your rear end they were abused.
Patricia Metzger’s campaign to achieve justice sheds light on a little-discussed aspect of the Israeli-Arab conflict: In the wake of the War of Independence and the establishment of Israel, two major population movements took place in the Middle East. The one that is frequently mentioned is the Palestinian exodus, but at the same time almost one million Jews were forced to leave Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years. According to official Arab statistics, due to persecution, some 950,000 Jews left those countries from 1948 to the beginning of the 1970s, and about 600,000 of them were absorbed in Israel. For the sake of comparison, the United Nations data estimate the original population of Arab-Palestinian refugees at 580,000.
Because we had no home for nearly two thousand years, Israel made itself independent of its Arab-British oppressors in 1948. In that year, another great Jewish Exodus occurred, leading to a large increase in the population of Israel and the decimation of some of the oldest Jewish communities on earth.
Jews have lived in the countries now occupied by Arabs since the destruction of the first Temple in 586 B.C.E. Yet, the descendants of these original inhabitants of so many Middle Eastern lands were driven out of their ancestral homes by the religious bigotry and racial animosity of the Arab invaders.
In 1945 there were more than 995,000 Jews living in Arabic speaking countries. Today, there are less than 8,000. Some Arab states like Libya are completely judenrein, i.e., cleansed of Jews, as the Arabs’ best friend, Hitler, liked to say.
About 630,000 of these Jews were absorbed by Israel. Another 350,000 went to Europe, America or Australia. Evidently, then, the refugee problem in the Middle East consists of the failure of the Arab states to compensate these 986,000 for the property and assets they were forced to leave behind.
Nothing justifies the Zionists’ ethnic cleansing of 750,000 Arabs from Palestine to make way for their racist project of establishing a “Jewish state”.
Ethnic cleansing? There is a factual error. Ethnic cleansing is not what happened to the Arabs that left Israel at the war of Independence.
750,000 Arabs fled out of fear of further massacres like that at Deir Yassin or were forcibly expelled by the Zionist forces, none of whom were ever allowed to return to their homes.
That is ethnic cleansing.
Jeremy Sir, just thank you. Truly. Your work is appreciated and vital.
Thanks, Angelis. Please share!
I agree. I think you’re brilliant and spot on.
Thank you, Larry.
Don’t worry, we will. The trolls are already launching scurrilous attacks against you like they do against Alison Weir. You are in excellent company.
Assuming you are sincere in your research, here are a few facts and arguments you may have overseen.
Myth #1.
While it may be true that there wasn’t major conflict in the levant before zionism, Jews were still considered second class citizens in the ottoman empire. The only reason there was no conflict was because the Jews did not rise up against the ottomans, though they would have every justification to rebel.
The riots in Jaffa were actually a massacre by the Arabs, the arabs who died were largely a result of them clashing with the british forces who came to stop the riots.
While it may be true that the riots were caused because of the arab fear of a Jewish state, I assume you are not suggesting that massacring innocent men, women and children is justified.
The ‘major violence’ of 1929 you refer to was actually massacres by the arab population against Jewish men, women and children then living in the mandate of Palestine.
Additionally, there were massacres perpetrated against the Jewish communities of Safed and Hebron in 1834 and 1838.
Myth #2.
Few believe that Israel’s legitimacy is based on a U.N. resolution, but it cannot be denied that there never was an independent Palestinian state or a Palestinian national identity before WWI. So the Palestinian state was also created by the same resolution or recommendation.
Myth #3.
The fact remains that had the arabs accepted the U.N.’s recommendation and not attacked Israel, they would have a state today. Do you deny that?
I’m curious, where did you get the land ownership data from 1945? My understanding is that most of the mandate of Palestine was desolate. You have your facts wrong. Look it up.
Myth #4.
The fact is that the past few Israeli Prime Ministers have promised to recognize a Palestinian state if they were to promise to cease the terror. They recognize the Palestinian state’s right to exist but not at the expense of Israel. The rules are simple, stop the terror, get a state. If you doubt this, I can show you many times when Israeli Prime Ministers have said so and even taken unilateral action toward such a goal.
In 1948, all the arab states that invaded Israel were dictatorships, don’t you find it curious that they would come defend the Palestinians right to representation when their own citizens did not have that right? Perhaps it was more of an anti-semitic attack on Israel, because they saw the Jews, who they considered second class citizens, rising up against their Muslim overlords who had treated them as second class citizens throughout history?
The Deir Yassin massacre is admittedly a black stain on Israel’s history and it has taken responsibility for it. But it cannot be denied that it was perpetrated by a radical militant group that was not part of the central Israeli army. The fact remains that it was a outlier and if the Israelis plan was to kill Palestinians, they would have killed many more. There are more than one million arabs living in Israel and have more freedom than any arab citizen from any other country in the region.
Myth #5.
Firing the first shot does not mean that you aren’t threatened with annihilation, it just means that you aren’t ready to be annihilated. If you want I can point you to rhetoric by Nassar where he threatens Israel with annihilation. Israel was a tiny state and wasn’t ready to take any chances and they didn’t.
I’d like to see your sources for all your quotes of Israeli ministers saying what you allege they had said.
Myth #6.
Let’s not forget that in the U.N. there is only one Jewish state and 47 muslim states, 27 of which are arab. Do you think that the U.N. is an legitimate impartial body that should be trusted to judge Israeli disputes with their neighbors fairly?
Myth #7
The Lebanon war was a direct result of PLO terror attempts against Israelis. From 1968 and escalating during the Lebanese civil war when Palestinians had massacred thousands of lebanese christians (from 1975) the Lebanon border had been a constant source of attacks against Israelis. The Sabra and Shatila massacres were not carried out by Israel, they were carried out by the Kataeb Party militia. Look it up.
Regarding Cast Lead, you have missed many important pieces of information. Between 2005, when Israel left Gaza, and 2008, when Israel launched operation cast lead, Hamas fired thousands of rockets and mortars into Israel, often with no retaliation.
Myth #8
While there are many who believe that G-d gave the land of Israel to the Jews, the leaders of Israel were not religious and nowhere in their declaration of independence or their literature does it suggest that Israel’s legitimacy is based on the bible. It is only used as a historical document to prove that Israel is the historic Jewish homeland from which they were expelled.
Myth #9
Read the Hamas charter, it contradicts everything you claim.
Myth #10
When a judge passes a verdict, that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t initially impartial. While the U.S. does support Israel, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t initially impartial, but it has chosen to side with the only democracy in the middle east, where, ironically, ordinary arabs have the highest standard of living and the most rights than any other country in the middle east.
If you want to know my sources for any of the facts mentioned above, I will be glad to send them to you.
Mark,
Myth #1
The Arabs of Palestine did not rule the Ottoman Empire, but, like the Jews of Palestine, were subjected by it.
Once again, Arabs and Jews in Palestine got along for the most part as neighbors until the rise of the Zionist movement.
Once again, the Arab attacks on Jews that occurred in 1921 and 1929 were not the result of inherent anti-Semitism, but a consequence of the Arabs’ reasonable fears about being disenfranchised and displaced from their homeland.
Myth #2
On the contrary, it is a widely-held belief that Israel’s legitimacy is based on a UN resolution.
How remarkable that you state few believe this and then repeat the same error yourself by insisting that both Israel and Palestine were created by Resolution 181.
Once again, that is false. See:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
Myth #3
The fact remains that the UN partition proposal was inherently unjust and required of the Arabs to surrender their rights and their property.
The facts about land ownsership are as I’ve stated them. See:
http://domino.un.org/maps/m0094.jpg
Myth #4
Once again, no state has a “right to exist”, and this concept is applied exclusively to Israel — but not to Palestine — in order to remove the discussion from its proper framework, which is the right of all peoples to self-determination, a right Israel denies to the Palestinians and not vice versa.
Myth #5
The facts are as I’ve stated them. Once again, Israel’s own intelligence assessed that Nasser would have to be insane to attack Israel. The CIA observed that Egypt’s forces in the Sinai had taken up defensive positions.
Myth #6
My opinion of the UN is irrelevant. Once again, the fact is that Resolution 242 called on Israel to fully withdraw from the occupied territories in acccordance with the fundamental principle of international law that the acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible.
Myth #7
The facts are as I’ve stated them. I mentioned the bombing of the refugee camps, but didn’t even mention the Sabra and Shatila massacre you are referring to, which was carried out under the watchful eye of Israeli forces — look it up.
Regarding Operation Cast Lead, the facts, again, are as I’ve stated them. Once again, it was Israel, not Hamas, that violated the ceasefire.
Myth #8
You are right, Zionism was and is not a religious movement, but a political one. Not sure how pointing this out affects my argument, as I did not state otherwise. There are, nevertheless, many religious Jews who are also Zionists and many Christians who are Zionists, both of whom employ a theological argument that is invalid on its own terms, as I’ve explained.
Myth #9
I’ve read the Hamas charter. The facts remain as I’ve stated them: once again, Hamas has repeatedly since 2005 declared its willingness to accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel with the 1967 lines as a border.
Myth #10
I’ll merely note that you just acknowledged that the US is not an impartial broker, but sides with Israel in the conflict.
Myth #1
It is true that the arabs did not rule Palestine, but they were part of the ‘elite’ muslim population who did receive favorable treatment from the ruling muslim ottomans. The Jews were treated as second class citizens and while there may not have been violent conflict, don’t you think it is misleading to say that it is a myth that the Jews and Arabs were not in conflict?
Myth #2
I don’t know the details of the UN resolution or recommendation as you suggest it, but I think that we agree that the UN is, or should be, a irrelevant body, and I don’t understand why you feel that what people believe the UN did is one of the ‘Top ten myths’ about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
Myth #3
The map you’ve presented shows less than 50 percent of geographical Israel (it shows the inhabited areas). Most of the land that is Israel, in the Negev or the south, was uninhabited, even this map shows that the south was 85 percent ‘public’.
The partition plan gave most of the arabs the land that they owned and the Jews the land that they owned. Even that land that the arabs owned in Israeli controlled areas would still belong to them, but they would be under Israeli autonomy. The fact that there are 1.5 million arabs that live in Israel with the same rights as the Jews proves this.
Now while you may think that the partition was unjust, that doesn’t mean that the arabs didn’t miss an opportunity, it is not a myth.
Myth #4
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that you are an anarchist and you therefore don’t believe in states?
I won’t go into that now, but assuming you are correct, those who believe that Israel has a right to exist, mean it in the way that if any state has a right to exist, Israel does too. Put into its proper context, I don’t see why that is a myth.
But even according to anarchists, if there is any state that has a right to exist, it is Israel. Beginning in the early 20th century up until Israeli independence, the JNF bought more than 350 square miles from arab landowners in the inhabited areas of Mandate Palestine.
Myth #5
If you read the newspapers of the eve of the six day war, you will see that conventional wisdom was that Nassar was threatening a second holocaust. Jews around the world were preparing for the worst.
Let’s not forget that it was Nasser who closed the straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, which according to international law is an act of war, and it was Nasser who told the UN peacekeeping forces to leave Sinai, and it was Nasser who said (May 26) that ‘the basic objective will be to destroy Israel’. Do you really think that Israel should have waited to be attacked because of something the CIA said?
Can you provide sources for the Israeli quotes you’ve mentioned?
Myth #6
I will concede, though I am not convinced, it is possible that you are correct. But still is that really one of the ‘top ten myths’ about the conflict?
Myth #7
I stand corrected, you did not mention the massacre. For the record, in Sharon v. Time (1984), a New York jury found that Time magazine’s story blaming Israel (Sharon) for the massacre was ‘false and defamatory’.
Regarding Cast Lead, can you give me the date you allege Israel violated the cease fire?
Myth #8
You have omitted many sources where the bible says that the Jews will return to Israel later on, so your argument is missing many important verses. (See Isaiah 11, Jeremiah 30, Ezekiel 38, Zechariah 14 and many, many more).
But I think that this is entirely irrelevant, since the ruling body in Israel does not believe this. But you are suggesting that this is one of the ‘top ten myths’ about the conflict, how can this be so important if most of Israel’s supporters doesn’t even believe this?
Myth #9
But the fact remains that the Hamas charter still calls for the destruction of Israel, why, if what you are saying is correct, would they not amend it?
I further challenge you to show me a source where the leaders of Hamas say that they will recognize Israel. Yes, they have said that they can live in peace with the Israelis, but that is very different than saying that they will live with Israel. They have said that if the Israelis agree to Sharia, they will live peacefully with them, but that is not an acceptance of Israel.
Myth #10
But that is like saying that any judge who passes a verdict is not impartial because they have chosen a side.
Myth #1
How interesting to learn that the Arab fellahin in Palestine were members of “the ‘elite'” under Ottoman rule. Remarkable.
Once again, the fact is that Arab and Jewish Palestinians generally got along as neighbors until the rise of the Zionist movement.
Myth #2
I’ll simply note that you aren’t challenging me on any point of fact or logic, merely wondering why I included the myth of the UN creation of Israel on the list, the answer to which I consider self-evident. If it isn’t self-evident to you and you wish to better understand its relevance and importance, please read:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
Myth #3
The map shows precisely what I described in the article, to wit:
The fact that you are arguing that the Arabs should have accepted the inherently unjust partition plan simply illustrates your own rejection of their right to self-determination.
Myth #4
You say you don’t understand why it is a myth that Israel has a “right to exist”. Please see the above article. I explain it there.
(Also, once again, the Jewish community owned less than 7% of the land in Palestine at the time of the unilateral declaration of the existence of the state of Israel.)
Myth #5
You are making the mistake of confusing “conventional wisdom” with historical fact. Once again, Israel’s own intelligence assessed that Egypt was not going to launch an attack on Israel. If you want a source for that, I have an impeccable one: Michael B. Oren.
Myth #6
That I am correct is not a mere possibility. It is not a matter of opinion but a simple pont of fact that Resolution 242 called on Israel to fully withdraw from the occupied territories in acccordance with the fundamental principle of international law that the acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible.
Myth #7
Notwithstanding what a New York jury supposedly had to say about the matter, Israel’s own investigation found Sharon bore “personal responsibility” for the Sabra-Shatila massacre. It was the IDF who controlled the area and Sharon who decided that the Phalangist militias should be sent into the camps despite the known risk that civilians would be massacred as a result.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2001/06/22/israel-sharon-investigation-urged
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/01/11/israel-ariel-sharon-s-troubling-legacy
Myth #8
I fail to see how the importance of the theological argument of Jewish and Christian Zionists, which is as I’ve shown invalid even on its own terms, is not self-evident.
Myth #9
Why should Hamas recognize Israel when Israel refuses to recognize Palestine? Again, the fact is that Hamas has repeatedly since 2005 declared its willingness to accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel with the 1967 lines as a border.
Myth #10
I’ll merely note that you have for a second time acknowledged that the US is not an impartial mediator in the conflict.
Myth #1
Again, the Jews were still second class citizens, the arabs were not. There were massacres in the 19th century in Safed and Hebron, even before Hertzl was born. To say there was no conflict is not true.
Myth #2
Correct, I am not challenging you on any facts but I am curious as to why you consider something that the UN did, which is a irrelevent body as far as morals are concerned, is a ‘top myth’ about Israel. Why do you consider it relevant in this conflict?
Myth #3
The arabs were granted autonomy over most of the land that they owned. I clearly accept their right to self determination, as does Israel, as they have the same voting and other rights as any other Israeli. Do you deny that?
Myth #4
I read what you wrote, but within context, I don’t understand why it is a myth that Israel has a right to exist.
Just because Jews may have owned only 7% of the land, that does not mean that the rest of the land belonged to the arabs, most of it was (and still is) uncultivated desert land. Only because of Israeli technology some of it has become arable.
Myth #5
Conventional wisdom of the time is a historical fact. Who is Michael B.?
Myth #6
Again, even if true, why do you consider that such an important fact?
Myth #7
That is only because Israel holds itself to a very high moral standard, and when a massacre can be prevented and is not, those who could have possibly prevented it are held accountable. But it is clear that it was no perpetrated by the Israelis.
Myth #8
Because in the passages that you omit, it says that the Jews will return to the land of Israel in later generations. Thus, according to that those who occupy the land that belongs to them are occupiers.
Myth #9
You stated that Hamas is ready to accept the state of Israel, I just asked for a source, please provide one.
Myth #10
Just curious, do you consider yourself impartial?
Myth #1
I did not say there was no conflict. The point is that the belief that things have always been the way they are now between Jews and Arabs is a false one. The point is illustrated, for example, by the Shaw Commission report: “In less than 10 years three serious attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews. For 80 years before the first of these attacks there is no recorded instance of any similar incidents.”
Myth #2
I cannot comprehend your incomprehension of how the UN General Assembly’s adoption of Resolution 181 is relevant to the conflict. Stretch your imagination. Or just read the other essay I provided you the link to.
Myth #3
No, it is not clear that you accept the Palestinians’ right to self-determination. On the contrary, it is clear from your insistence that they should have accepted the UN partition plan that you reject it.
It is preposterous for you to hypothesize that the Zionists intended for Arabs to have equal rights in their proposed “Jewish state” when the historical fact of the matter is that Israel was birthed through the ethnic cleansing of most of Palestine’s Arab population.
Myth #4
What do you mean by “within context”? What part of what I wrote about how no state has a “right to exist” do you not comprehend?
Myth #5
Yes. Even when it was wrong, as in this case.
Michael B. Oren: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Oren
Myth #6
I cannot comprehend your incomprehension of how the fact that Israel launched a war of aggression against Egypt in June 1967 might be relevant to the conflict. You are trolling.
Myth #7
I cannot agree with you that the moral standard Israel exercises is a “very high” one. Or if Israel standard is a very high one, then I can’t agree it very well holds itself to it — the Sabra and Shatila massacre being a perfectly suitable example.
Myth #8
Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
Myth #9
I have already provided you with sources that Hamas has repeatedly since 2005 declared its willingness to accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel with the 1967 lines as a border. See the article. If you want links, I’m sure you know how to use Google. It’s very quick.
Myth #10
That might depend on how you define “impartial”.
Reply to Jeremy:
1. In the article you do say that it is a myth that “Jews and Arabs have always been in conflict in the region” and that “For the most part, Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors.” Perhaps I don’t understand what you mean by ‘conflict’ and ‘got along’ but do you really consider riots of 1660, 1665, 1828, 1867, 1834, 1838, the blood libel of 1840, 1875, 1897, 1929, 1936-37 being given second class ‘dhimmi’ status when there were no riots, forced conversions and being subject to the ‘jizya’ tax and other punitive taxes, is that not conflict?
2. The reason I feel it is irrelevant is because I don’t think that the UN carries and legal or moral weight. But if you feel that they do, won’t you acknowledge that an independent state of Palestine was ‘created’ through the same resolution or ‘recommendation’?
3. Well than let me state it clearly, I believe that every human being has the right to self determination, and that includes all arabs.
Was there ever a time when Israeli arabs did not have the same rights as all other Israelis?
When was there ethnic cleansing?
4. I understand that you believe that no country has a right to exist, but people believe that Israel has a right to exist just like America has a right to exist. Is that a myth?
5. Can you provide a source where Michael Oren said what you allege?
Here is a quote from Michael Oren’s book:
“On the morning of May 16, 1967, Egypt’s president, Gamal Abdul Nasser, moved on his plan for a military offensive.”
http://www.fsmitha.com/review/r-oren.html
6. Hey, let’s try not to get personal. That was not my question. My question is why do you consider UN resolution 242 so relevant to the conflict. Do you think that the UN is a impartial and moral body?
You may find this enlightening.
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/New-study-of-UN-Resolution-242-could-alter-views-of-Israeli-Arab-conflict-386436
7. Again, the Sabra and Shatilla massacre was not committed by the Israelis, they found that Sharon could have possibly prevented it, and he was therefore censured because of their high standard.
8. Let me put it into a syllogism. (This is according to those who believe in the bible).
Though God had said that the Jews will be expelled from Israel, it still belongs to them and they will later return.
Anybody who occupies a land that God gave to another is an occupier.
The arabs have occupied Israel, they are therefore occupiers.
Where’s the flaw?
9. I have Googled and this is what I’ve found:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/middleeast/06palestinians.html?_r=0
“Asked if a deal honoring those principles would produce an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Mr. Meshal said, ‘I don’t want to talk about that'”
Yes, they’ve accepted a two state solution but they do not promise peace in return. All that means is that they will take what they can get and fight for the rest. That’s not an acceptance of Israel.
Do you have other sources?
10. Do you think that an impartial body exists?
1. You are arguing as though I have claimed that there had never been any instances in which Arabs and Jews came into conflict in Palestine prior to the Zionist movement. I have not. Rather, I pointed out that it is a myth that there has always been conflict between Jews and Arabs as there is today.
2. You still have not read this. Please do:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
3. No, you do not believe that every human being has the right to self-determination as illustrated by the fact that you’ve insisted that the Arabs should have accepted the UN partition plan, which explicitly rejected their right to self-determination.
Now, you asked about the timing when I said, “Israel was birthed through the ethnic cleansing of most of Palestine’s Arab population.” Read it again. Your answer is right there. Use some deduction if you feel it necessary to think that hard about it.
4. No, it is not a myth that many people believe that Israel has a right to exist. If that was a myth, I would not have written my “Myth #4” above (where I point out that it is a myth that Israel has a right to exist.)
5. Oren acknowledges in his book that “By all reports Israel received from the Americans, and according to its own intelligence, Nasser had no interest in bloodshed”. He goes on to explain how Israeli intelligence assessed that “Nasswer would have to be deranged” to attack Israel.
Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East (New York: Presidio Press, 2003), 59.
No, the quote you provided is not from Oren’s book.
6. I can’t imagine what part of my previous reply you consider to have been “personal”. Do you really do not know Resolution 242’s relevance to the conflict?
My opinion of the UN is not relevant.
7. Yes, the Sabra and Shatila massacre was committed by the Israelis. They controlled the area, they knew what would happen if they sent in the Phalangist militias, and Sharon gave the order to do so. Then the Israeli forces sat and watched as defenseless civilians were slaughtered.
8. The flaw in your syllogism is in line one. The part that reads “it still belongs to them”. Incorrect. Please see “Myth #8” above.
9. You ask for sources. I could go and copy/paste the quotes I provided in the above article and Google them to find sources, same as you could. But, to save myself time, I’ll just copy/paste an excerpt from my forthcoming book:
10. As you acknowledge that what I wrote is true, there seems nothing more to discuss on this one.
1. But you have stated that it is a myth that the Jews and the arabs have always been in conflict in the region. Can you give me a time when the Jews were not considered second class citizens and not subject to additional taxes or a time when they did not live under the threat of a riot?
2. I read it. I still don’t see why the UN resolution or recommendation is relevant.
3. Had the arabs accepted the UN plan, the arabs who would live in Israel would have more self determination than any other arab citizen ever had in the middle east. Those who did choose to live in Israel have the same rights as almost any citizen in any democracy.
Read what I wrote again, I asked when did this ethnic cleansing you are referring to, occur?
4. So I would assume that you would agree that the state of Palestine doesn’t have the right to exist either?
5. The quotes you provide do not suggest that Oren believes the six day war was offensive. Oren maintains that the Israeli strike was a response to the closure of the straits of Tiran, the removal of the UN peacekeeping troops and the Egyptian military buildup.
“Israel views the closure of the Straits of Tiran as an act of Belligerency and will defend itself against it…”
(Here is a link to a preview of the book)
https://books.google.com/books?id=dlMW4GSQHnYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=michael+oren&hl=en&sa=X&ei=n6O4VOrwKIbFggTbvoGIBw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=michael%20oren&f=false
6. You said “You are trolling”. Never mind. Forgiven.
I’ve read 242, and I think that your opinion about it is incorrect, but even if your opinion were correct, why should what the UN says be binding?
7. Are you suggesting that when the Israelis know that Hamas is committing atrocities in Gaza and they do not prevent it, then they are responsible for it?
8. See Genesis 13:15 “For all the land which you see, to you will I give it, and to your descendants forever.” Exodus 32:13 “I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever”
God said that it will belong to the Jews forever. Even the verses you quote suggest that God will send them from the land, but nowhere does it say that the land will cease to belong to them.
9. You still didn’t provide any evidence that Hamas would recognize Israel. You expressly quoted Meshal “When asked whether this presupposed the existence of Israel,” he responded that “…the Palestinians should not be required to recognize Israel”. He NEVER agreed to recognize Israel. The most he agreed to was a ten year truce, is that not correct?
10. A half truth at best. Would you say that an honest broker exists at all?
1. You are confusing the Arab Palestinians with the Ottoman Turks.
2. Here, this should help you understand the relevance of Resolution 181 to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:
The Role of the U.N. in Creating the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
3. You are arguing that the Arab Palestinians could be exercising self-determination today if only they had surrendered the same right in 1947.
4. No state has a “right to exist”. Period. Got it?
5. Oren’s opinion is irrelevant. It’s the facts that matter, and the fact is that Israel’s own intelligence assessed that Egypt had no intention of starting a war. And, in fact, the war was not launched by Egypt, but by Israel.
6. It is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of historical fact that Resolution 242 called on Israel to withdraw completely from the territories it occupied during the 1967 war in accordance with the fundamental principle of international law that the acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible.
7. No. Once again, the IDF controlled the area, they knew what would happen if they sent in the Phalangist militias, and Sharon gave the order to do so. Then the Israeli forces sat and watched as defenseless civilians were slaughtered. It is difficult to see how one can argue, given these facts, that the IDF had no responsibility for the massacre.
8. I am not clear oabout what part of the verses I quoted with regard to how the Hebrews perpetually violated their covenant with Yahweh you do not understand. Perhaps you simply do not undertand what a covenant is? It’s basically a contract. The Hebrews broke their contract, so the deal was off. Yahweh cast them out and gave their land over to others. This is a central theme of the Bible. Hard to miss.
9. You are right, I did not present any evidence that Hamas would recognize Israel. I did not do so because I did not write that Hamas would do so. I wrote that Hamas has repeatedly since 2005 expressed its willingness to accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel along the 1967 borders. And so it has.
10. Please explain what you mean by saying it is a “half truth at best” that the US is not the “honest broker” it makes itself out to be. It is a very puzzling statement.
1. It was the arabs who committed the massacres.
2. That only explains the relevance of the resolution, not of the UN itself. I don’t believe that the UN is a relevant body that has a right to determine who should control a state. Do you disagree?
3. I am saying that had the arabs accepted the partition plan, they would have more self determination than have ever had in the region.
4. Well than why not say that it is neither Israel nor Palestine have a right to exist, why do you only point out that it is a myth that Israel has a right to exist and omit that Palestine does not have that right either?
5. You mentioned Oren, not me. The reason you mentioned it was a response to my request for a source that the Israeli intelligence determined there was no threat. You quoted Oren, now that Oren is out, where is your source?
Incorrect. Egypt committed the first act of war when it closed the straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping.
6. Perhaps you should read this:
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/New-study-of-UN-Resolution-242-could-alter-views-of-Israeli-Arab-conflict-386436
The fact remains that the land Israeli ‘occupied’ was never part of an independent state of Palestine.
7. That is what Time’s lawyers argued and an impartial jury disagreed. (See Sharon v. Time 1984)
8. The verses clearly say that the land will belong to them forever. Nowhere does it say that if they break the covenant they will lose the land, only that they will be expelled from it, nowhere does it say that it will cease to belong to them.
9. You did say that it is a myth that the Palestinians reject the two state solution. It is not. Hamas only accepts a Palestinian state, not an Israeli state. The two state solution requires recognizing Israel.
It is a fact that Hamas does not accept the two state solution.
10. Why just say that it is a myth that the U.S. is a honest broker, why not say that it is a myth that an honest broker exists in the conflict altogether?
That is as dishonest as singling out one individual for making a honest mistake when everybody makes honest mistakes.
1. Which brings me right back to what I said two replies ago: You are arguing as though I have claimed that there had never been any instances in which Arabs and Jews came into conflict in Palestine prior to the Zionist movement. I have not. Rather, I pointed out that it is a myth that there has always been conflict between Jews and Arabs as there is today.
You are arguing in circles. You have been warned twice already about trolling. Three strikes. Youre priveleges are revoked.
2. Back to the point: It widely held belief that the UN created Israel is a myth.
3. You are arguing that the Arab Palestinians could be exercising self-determination today if only they had surrendered the same right in 1947.
No further comment required.
4. Because I do not assume my readers are too stupid to draw an elementary conclusion on their own.
5. Egypt did not attack Israel. The 1967 war began on the morning of June 5, when Israel launched a surprise attack on Egypt despite its own intelligence assessing that Egypt would not attack Israel.
6. I read it before writing my previous reply, which I repeat: It is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of historical fact that Resolution 242 called on Israel to withdraw completely from the territories it occupied during the 1967 war in accordance with the fundamental principle of international law that the acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible.
7. Once again, the IDF controlled the area, they knew what would happen if they sent in the Phalangist militias, and Sharon gave the order to do so. Then the Israeli forces sat and watched as defenseless civilians were slaughtered. It is difficult to see how one can argue, given these facts, that the IDF had no responsibility for the massacre.
8. Don’t pretend like you can’t comprehend the concept of a contract. The Hebrews broke the contract. Most of the Old Testament is about that. It’s hard to miss.
9. The PLO, recognized as the “sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people”, has long accepted the two-state solution.
10. Because to say that would make no sense. There is only one “peace process”. Only one country that acts as mediator in that process. There is nothing “dishonest” about identifying that country. It is the US. The US is the — yes “the” — dishonest broker.
Your eighth point is hilarious in its historical cherry-picking as it is ironic and self-defeating.
Your quotes from Genesis ignore the entire narrative following Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, with Joseph paving the way for the survival of Israel in Egypt due to famine. Your last quote from Genesis is from chapter 28, but Genesis is 50 chapters long. That’s a lot of missing context which is relied upon to explain Israel’s presence.
Your quotes about Israel’s rebellion are correct, but again they are selective. They miss the fact that Israel repented and was blessed by God when they returned. In fact, all of this was predicted by God – i.e. their rebellion, their lament, their return – well in advance. Isaiah and Jeremiah’s writings make this clear and the overall rebellion was in fact predicted by God at the end of Deuteronomy too. Ezra and Nehemiah are at least two books you conveniently leave out of your quotes – and no wonder! They completely refute the notion that Israel’s presence is wrong where they are now.
You do know that a second temple was built, right?
Finally, using the argument is in itself ludicrous because it can only work if you admit the historical truth that Jews lived in that land for hundreds and hundreds of years, so they can in no meaningful or accurate sense be considered ‘occupiers’. Making such an admission destroys virtually everything else you’ve written. Furthermore you are not God and in no position to offer judgement on a covenant between Him and Israel, when you misrepresent the full nature of it!
Anybody who makes a point that undermines his own argument is obviously not thinking straight. And the ninth point that claims Hamas don’t seek the destruction of Israel is a blatant lie. Hamas has openly stated it seeks all Jews to be dead and the recent tactic of using aid money to build over 30 terror tunnels into Israel from the Gaza strip proves that.. This entire essay says more about your bias than anything else.
As I’ve shown, it is those who make the theological argument that all of Palestine belongs to the Jews who ignore the entire narrative of the Old Testament. The theme about how the Hebrews perpetually violated their covenant with Yahweh is pretty hard to miss. It must take an extraordinary effort not to notice it — assuming you’ve ever actually read the Bible.
You’re also missing the whole part about the new covenant, as well as the meaning of the Torah, including Thou shalt not murder, Thou shalt not covet that which is thy neighbors, and Thou shalt not steal.
Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank haven’t existed for “hundreds and hundreds of years”, no.
You missed my overall point and your answer only further digs a hole for yourself. It does not matter what kind of argument you bring to try to explain away the history of the Jewish people in that land. No matter what level of right the Israelites have to that land – be it considered big (by people like me) or small (by people like you), my point is that Palestinians will always have less. Any standard you hold up to the Israelites must be appied to them as well, and you consistently fail to do that.
Check and mate.
You are welcome to present an argument, as opposed to spewing meaningless words.
I did present an argument and a very straightforward one at that. I’m simply asking you apply the same standards you judge the Israel people by to the Palestinians.
It is illuminating that once your deception is revealed (and you have attempted to hide it by using many words in your original post), you are forced to ignore it and launch into a misrepresentation and hostility. Your response betrays what you really think and it is far from rational or reasonable. ‘Israel=bad, Palestine=good.’
You are also welcome to try to support your charge of a double-standard on my part with an argument.
Odd how you condone Racist and Fascist antisemitic comments. Because you are a racist and antisemitic. Id’ respect you if you were an Arab
This is something for you to ponder.
The overwhelming majority of the Human populace despises the AskeNAZI / Edomites / Counterfeit jews hailing from the Russia and the Caucasus bordering Mongolia.
The so-called Khazar Theory is a racist joke. If they did come from there, it was in 1800, centuries ago. The Normans conquered England too in 900-1000. They should leave as well? Stop racializing this conflict.
this article contains misleading information and many lies by a politically biased writer who distorts historical well known facts
Bengg,
I challenge you to support your claim that the article “contains misleading information and many lies”. Good luck with that.
Numerous people have taken you up on that challenge and all you do is shove your fingers in your ears and repeat yourself. Even resorting to childish antics like chanting “blah blah blah” whenever someone talks. The *only* thing you have proven is that A) you have no working knowledge on the matter, and B) you’re an ignorant little child.
Grow up.
My challenge you to support your claim that the article “contains misleading information and many lies” remains open. Good luck with that.
A country is represented by its people. So saying Israel has the right to exist is fully valid. Especially when you consider the fact that Palestine isn’t even recognized as a country. I just love when you people reveal you haven’t the slightest idea of what you’re talking about.
The concept of a state having a “right to exist” is nonsense. See above.
Ironic you should say “A country is represented by its people” when Israel was established by ethnically cleansing most of Palestine’s Arab inhabitants, wiping their towns off the map, and creating Jewish ones in their place.
And yet, whenever you’re asked for proof, you refuse it. Lmfao. Considering we already know you to be a liar, why should anyone believe this inane claim?
The proof is in reason. It is a logical truism. See the article.
Every word, but every single word, is a lie. Hammond, you are a great propagandist, but without doubt a filthy liar. Either that or you are well paid by your Arab masters. Roast in hell.
Dear Big Poppa E,
I did not include footnotes with this piece because it is simply a compilation of previous work. For sources, see my previous works, first and foremost my book The Rejection of Palestinian Self-Determination, from which most of this article is derived.
http://www.amazon.com/Rejection-Palestinian-Self-Determination-Jeremy-Hammond/dp/0557095697/
Link
to 1925 Waqf Temple Mount Guide noting that the First and Second Jewish Temples
were located on the Temple Mount
For Jews, the Temple Mount is the holiest place
in the world. The Jewish connection to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount
originates in the biblical narrative, as it is said to be the location of the
binding of Isaac.[2] The Talmud, Judaism’s supreme canonical text, says that
the foundation stone on the Temple Mount is the location from which the world
was created.[3] In Samuel II 24:18-25, King David bought the bedrock for the
Temple from Araunah the Jebusite. Subsequently, Solomon, David’s son, used the
bedrock to build the First Temple.[4] Solomon’s Temple was eventually
destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon in 586 BCE.
Link to 1925 Waqf Temple Mount Guide noting that the First and Second Jewish
Temples werelocated on the Temple Mount
For Jews, the Temple Mount is the holiest place in the world.
Following the destruction of Jerusalem and Solomon’s Temple, many Jews were sent into exile. However, under the Persian
King Cyrus, the Jews were allowed to return and began to rebuild the Temple. The Second Temple was completed in 516 BCE and expanded by King Herod in 19 BCE.
In 70 CE, the Roman Empire, led by Emperor Titus, laid siege to Jerusalem and destroyed the Second Temple. Jews have maintained an unbreakable connection to Jerusalem, and the Temple Mount since that time.
Today, Jews follow a number of different customs in
remembrance of their fallen Temple. When Jews pray, they pray toward Jerusalem. Within the daily liturgy, there are numerous calls for the
rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Temple. During the week, after meals, Jews recite a grace, which
includes the recitation of Psalm 137 (“If I forget thee, O Jerusalem…”).[5] At
the end of a wedding ceremony, the groom breaks a glass, which signifies the
Jewish people’s continued mourning over the Temple’s destruction. In addition,
many have the custom of leaving a wall in their home unfinished in remembrance
of the destruction. All of these customs play a significant part in the Jewish
connection to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, which former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert stated
“represents the purist expression of all that Jews prayed for, dreamed of,
cried for, and died for in the two thousand years since the destruction of the Second Temple.”[6] In addition to the customs and ideology, the Jewish
connection to the Land of Israel and Jerusalem is internationally recognized.[7]
ISLAMIC LITERATURE AND THE TEMPLE MOUNT
Classic Islamic literature also recognizes the
existence of a Jewish Temple and its importance to Judaism. This makes Palestinian Temple Denial all the more puzzling.
In Sura 17:1 of the Koran, the “Farthest Mosque” is
called the al-masjid al-Aqsa. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn,[8] a well-respected Sunni
exegesis of the Koran from the 15th and 16th centuries, notes that the
“Farthest Mosque” is a reference to the Bayt al-Maqdis of Jerusalem.[9] In
Hebrew, the Jewish Temple is often referred to as the Beyt Ha-Miqdash, nearly
identical to the Arabic term. In the commentary of Abdullah Ibn Omar
al-Baydawi, who authored several prominent theological works in the 13th
century, the masjid is referred to as the Bayt al-Maqdis because during
Muhammad’s time no mosque existed in Jerusalem.[10] Koranic historian and
commentator, Abu Jafar Muhammad al-Tabari, who chronicled the seventh century
Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, wrote that one day when Umar finished praying, he
went to the place where “the Romans buried the Temple [bayt al-maqdis] at the
time of the sons of Israel.”[11] In addition, eleventh century historian
Muhammad Ibn Ahmad al-Maqdisi and fourteenth century Iranian religious scholar
Hamdallah al-Mustawfi acknowledged that the al-Aqsa Mosque was built on top of
Solomon’s Temple.[12]
This is a small sample of the Islamic literature
attesting to the Jewish connection to the Temple Mount. Innumerable other writings from other faiths attest to this
fact, as well.
Link to 1925 Waqf Temple Mount Guide noting that
the First and Second Jewish Temples were located on the Temple Mount
http://www.templeinstitute.org/1925-wakf-temple-mount-guide.pdf
For Jews, the Temple Mount is the holiest place in the world.
Following the destruction of Jerusalem and Solomon’s Temple, many Jews were sent into exile. However, under the Persian
King Cyrus, the Jews were allowed to return and began to rebuild the Temple. The Second Temple was completed in 516 BCE and expanded by King Herod in 19 BCE.
In 70 CE, the Roman Empire, led by Emperor Titus, laid siege to Jerusalem and destroyed the Second Temple. Jews have maintained an unbreakable connection to Jerusalem, and the Temple Mount since that time.
This is a small sample of the Islamic literature
attesting to the Jewish connection to the Temple Mount. Innumerable other writings from other faiths attest to this fact,
as well.
Link to 1925 Waqf Temple Mount Guide noting that
the First and Second Jewish Temples were located on the Temple Mount
http://www.templeinstitute.org/1925-wakf-temple-mount-guide.pdf
Over a million Jewish people and their children
were expelled from Arab countries and their assets confiscated
It is interesting to note, that Jordan is a country
that never existed in history before WWI and nobody is contesting its
legitimacy or territorial sovereignty and control. The same powers that
established 21 Arab States plus Jordan after WWI, established the State of Israel based on the Balfour
Declaration and the San Remo Treaty of 1920 which was confirmed by the 1920
Treaty of Sevres..
On the other hand, Israel and its Jewish people have over 4,000 years of history.
Many nations and people are questioning Israel’s control of its liberated territory. No one is mentioning that
the Arab countries had ejected about a million Jewish people and their children
from their countries, confiscated their assets, businesses, homes and Real
estate, over 650,00 Jewish people and their children of these expelled Jewish
people were resettled in Greater Israel. The Land the Arab countries
confiscated from the Jewish people 120,400 sq. km. or 75,000 sq. miles, which
is over 5-6 times the size of Israel, and its value today is the trillions of dollars.
Transfer the Arab-Palestinians to the Jewish owned
land in Arab countries is a good solution.
Let the 21 Arab countries resettle the Arab
Palestinians in the land they confiscated from the Jews which is 5-6 times the
size of Israel (120,440 sq. km.). Provide them with funds they confiscated
from the million Jewish people they expelled and let them build an economy,
This will benefit both the Arab-Palestinians and the hosting countries, The
other alternative is relocate the Arab-Palestinians to Jordan, (originally land
allocated for the Jewish people) which is already 80% Arab-Palestinians, and
give them funds to relocate and build an economy. This will solve the
Arab-Palestinians refugee problem once and for all. It will also reduce
hostility and strife in the region.
Israel must be steadfast
in protecting its rights and its people
Many nations and people are questioning Israel’s control of its
liberated territory.
No one is mentioning that the
Arab countries had ejected about a million Jewish people and their children
from their countries, confiscated their assets, businesses, homes and Real
estate. Many of the Jews ejected from Arab countries died while their forced
departure from Arab countries, due to hardship, famine and starvation. 650,00
Jewish people and their children of these expelled Jewish people and their
children were resettled in Greater Israel. The Land the Arab countries
confiscated from the Jewish people 120,440 sq. km. or 75,000 sq. miles, which
is over 5-6 times the size of Israel, and its value today is the trillions of dollars.
The Jewish people and their
children during the over 2,000 years living in Arab countries have suffered
Pogroms, Libel claims, beheadings, beatings, false imprisonment and extreme
hardship as a second class citizens. They had their businesses and homes
pillaged, their wives and daughters raped, sold them as slaves, their houses of
worship pillaged and burned, forced conversion to Islam and many were beheaded.
Today over half of Israel’s population are Jews expelled from Arab countries
and their children and grandchildren.
The Audacity of the Arab
Palestinians and the Arab countries in demanding territory from the Jewish
people in Palestine after they ejected over a million Jewish people and their
children who have lived in Arab land for over 2,000 years and after they
confiscated all their assets and Real estate 5-6 times the size of Israel
(120,440 sq. km. – 75,000 sq. mi.), valued in the trillions of dollars. There
was also Jewish property and land (totaling about 50,000 sq. km.) in Jordan, Gaza and
across the Golan Heights under Syria’s control.
Now the Arab nations are
demanding more land and more compensation.
The Arab countries have
chased the million Jews and their children and now the want to chase them away
again, from their own historical land.
Israel must respond with extreme force to any violent
demonstration and terror. Israel’s population must have peace and tranquility without
intimidation by anyone.
The Jewish people have suffered
enough in the Diaspora for the past 2,500 years. It is time for the Jewish
people to live as free people in their own land without violence and terror.
It is time to consider that
the only alternative is a population transfer of the Arab-Palestinians to the
territories the Arab countries confiscated from the Jewish people and settle
this dispute once and for all. Many Arab leaders had suggested these solutions
over the years.
YJ Draiman
How many holidays do the Arabs-Muslims
celebrate due to historical events in the land of ancient Israel
and Jerusalem.
The Jewish people celebrate most of their
holidays and fast days in memory of Jerusalem
and Israel.
and the goal and aspiration to return to Israel
and rebuild the Temple
in Jerusalem
– where it was before it was destroyed and desecrated by the enemies of the
Jews. Many of the Jewish prayers for thousands of years recite the love of Israel
and the Jewish aspirations to return to their ancestral land and bring back its
glory and holiness.
At Jewish weddings they break a glass in memory of Jerusalem
and the aspiration to return and build the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
YJ Draiman
The Law of Return is for The Jews, the
option to return to Greater Israel
and The Arab-Palestinians to leave Greater Israel
and return to the Arab countries they originated from. The Arab-Palestinians
should move to the Million plus Jewish homes confiscated by the Arab countries
from the expelled Jewish people and the 120,440 sq. km. of Real property the
Arabs confiscated from the million plus Jews and their children expelled from
Arab countries. That is the only viable alternative.
Face it and stop hallucinating, once and for all. There will never be an Arab-Palestinian
State in Greater Israel West of the Jordan River (Judea and Samaria).
Jerusalem the United Eternal Capital of the Jewish people.
YJ Draiman
Sending thousands of rockets
indiscriminately into civilian centers and tunneling into Israel
to kill civilians and sending suicide bombers is not an obstacle to peace but
building homes is? Are the U.S. & E.U. going on tour as a new comedy duo?
“Jeremy R. Hammond is an independent political analyst and a recipient of the Project Censored Award for Outstanding Investigative Journalism. ”
So no qualifications in History and a basic education in Political science and you think you are qualified to pass off this load of Judehass and Propaganda as ‘fact’?
This Jeremy Hammond must have taken money from the Arab world. There’s no other explanation for the man’s propaganda drivel
I received not a penny for writing this article, which you are welcome to point out any error in fact or logic in. Best of luck with that.
Each and every one of your ten myths rewrite history and international law, at the same as your myths erase ill-fitting facts that would turn your myths on their head. If you did not receive Arab money, then it would be of interest to see a list investors in FPJ
The only investor in FPJ is myself. Again, I welcome you to point to any error in fact or logic in the article.
Thank you for the welcome. Now get FPJ to publish my rejoinder pointing all the errors, facts and logic in your mythological article.
You haven’t submitted one. But you’re welcome to:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/submission-guidelines/
Thanks. I have submitted quite a number of my articles which not just refute but expose intellectuals like you. I will try again, and submit to FPJ . Meanwhile, study my latest on Christian haters of Israel: ” Can men of the cloth, even pooling their faith,justify the perversity? Can they square the circle of exerting themselves to
attack Jews while having no time for Christendom exploding on their doorstep?”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/17042#.VXbxfpsaLcs
As long as we’re sharing work, and since you’re published in Arutz Sheva, here is their attempt to discredit my piece “The Myth of the UN Creation of Israel”:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/140301#.VXg-Z_lViko
And here’s my rejoinder, where I easily disarm the vain attacks on my piece:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/28/rejoinder-to-is-un-creation-of-israel-a-myth-ask-foreign-policy-journal/
under work pressure I hope to submit a complete expose of your propaganda in a couple of weeks. One can only gape at the idiocy of Dr Nisan’s pathetic article
Well, there’s one thing we agree upon, at least.
The idea that “Israel” is the homeland for “Jews” is the biggest myth.
The Hebrews originated in what is now called Southern Iraq, when it was Egypt.
The birthplace of Abraham was the old city of Ur (Google it), in Iraq.
The Latin and Greek bibles described “The Parting of the REED Sea” not the RED sea, this mistake was made during the translation of the King James English Bible (Saddam Hussein, drained those huge marsh areas, but work is taking place to re-establish them).
That would make Abraham and the Hebrews, what we would now call Arabs.
The Kingdom of Davis and Solomon lasted for a maximum of 69 years, before disintegrating, but that was par for the course in those days.
There have been many other “Jewish Kingdoms” including the Yemen, Kurdistan, Ethiopia, and the largest and most recent was the Khazarea Kingdom which existed from the 7th to the 10th centuries, and covered The Crimea, The Ukraine and huge areas of Southern Russia.
The funny thing is that those early European immigrants to Palestine were almost exclusively from Russia!
Hollywood has a lot to answer for!
“The problem was that “The Arab people of Palestine are today united in their demand for representative government”, but were being denied that right by the Zionists and their British benefactors.”
If the suggestion here is that the ruling British we somehow favouring Jews over Arabs….then this is one of the most ludicrous things I ever read….
The British restriction on Jewish immigration to a mere 75,000 between 1940-44 effectively meant that the Jews of Europe had nowhere to go at their most desperate hour of need….
Millions could have been saved….and the British were directly responsible for that not happening….
Palestine did not belong to the UK. It belonged to its inhabitants, who had rights. Why did the UK and other European countries not take in the Jewish refugees? The Palestinians were not responsible for the war or the Holocaust, so why were they made to pay the price for it by being disenfranchised, then having their lands stolen from them by force as most of the Arab population was ethnically cleansed in order to establish the “Jewish state”?
Palestine did not belong to it’s inhabitants at all….that is just poisoned anti-zionist spin….
Palestine did not exist as a country….only as a region….and the majority of that region was open and empty wasteland….
Palestine was under the control of the British….and therefore it could have done a lot more to save Europe’s Jews from being annihilated….(something that seems to concern you very little….not surprisingly).
The British stance of Jewish immigration (at the behest of the local Arab population) during WW2 directly led to the deaths of millions of Jews in Europe….
Fortunately the existence of Israel will prevent such an atrocity from ever happening again….I’m sure you will agree….?
Or maybe not….?
I defer to my previous comment.
PEDOPHILIA IS NORMATIVE in Palestinian ISLAM.
Palestinian Muslims who practice PEDOPHILIA are imitating the PERFECT MAN MOHAMMED…an epileptic, a highwayman, a womanizer, an enslaver, a mass murderer.
A priest who strays in that way is committing a grievous mortal sin and a now a crime as well.
Palestinian and Pakistani Mullahs are notorious pedophiles in madrassahs (Islamic Koran schools). When the numbers come out, I believe will learn that most Muslim boys get raped in madrassahs.
A number of Islamic scholars such as al Nawawi spoke without condemnation about pedophilia and gay sex.+1
How about if this waSSp discusses the EXTERMINATION of the natives of America by his bloodline?? Of course this waSSp is on a muSSlim payroll as is Ron Paulestine. I support the American natives to organize themselves and take back their land by force!!!! Let’s see this waSSp after a few churches have been burned on native soil.
Today over half the population in Israel are: The majority of the million Jewish families expelled from Arab countries, while many of these Jewish families go back to 70 AD and beyond, those are the Jews who were forced to leave Israel after the Destruction of the Jewish Temples in Jerusalem. During the years of Diaspora in the Arab countries, they were persecuted, molested, raped and beheaded. In the past 70 years the Arab states expelled them and confiscated all their assets, businesses, homes and 120,440 sq. km. of real estate property which is valued in the trillions of dollars and is 6 times the size of Israel.
Stop obfuscating history and face factual reality of what transpired.
Text of Law drafted by Political Committee of Arab League
1. Beginning with November 28, 1947, all Jewish citizens of (Name of Arab Country) will be considered as members of the Jewish minority State of Palestine and will have to register with the authorities of the region wherein they reside, giving their names, the exact number of members in their families, their addresses, the names of their banks and the amounts of their deposits in these banks. This formality is to be accomplished within seven days.
2. Beginning with (November 28, 1947), bank accounts of Jews will be frozen. These funds will be utilized in part or in full to finance the movement of resistance to Zionist ambitions in Palestine.
3. Beginning with (November 28, 1947), only Jews who are subjects of foreign countries will be considered as “neutrals”. These will be compelled either to return to their countries, with a minimum of delay, or be considered as Arabs and obliged to accept active service with the Arab army.
4. Jews who accept active service in Arab armies or place themselves at the disposal of those armies, will be considered as “Arabs”.
5. Every Jew whose activities reveal that he is an active Zionist will be considered as a political prisoner and will be interned in places specifically designated for that purpose by police authorities or by the Government. His financial resources, instead of being frozen, will be confiscated.
6. Any Jew who will be able to prove that his activities are anti-Zionist will be free to act as he likes, provided that he declares his readiness to join the Arab armies.
7. The foregoing (para.6) does not mean that those Jews will not be submitted to paragraphs 1 and 2 of this law.
Palliwood: At least 2 pictures are from casualties of other wars (Bangladesh, Syria)
mornings in jenin by susan abulhawa really brings this home, at least for those of us, like me, who respond to fictionalised accounts best.
I have read that the “occupied” land was legally purchased by Jews. Is this true?
No. That is false. Under international law, all of Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is “occupied Palestinian territory”, to quote from the International Court of Justice.
You can’t debate me Jeremy
You’re an amateur ‘anti-zionist’.
Benny Morris
http://www.zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2008/02/israel-and-palestinians-according-to.html
In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of Nov 29th, 1947 (No. 181),
They [Palestinian Arabs] launched Hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community.
But They LOST; and one of the RESULTS was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
[…..]
Most of Palestine’s 700,000 “refugees” fled their homes because of the flail of War (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of Victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.
The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became “refugees” – and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3’s of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and Not from their country
(which is the usual definition of a refugee)
– was Not a “racist crime” but the RESULT of a national conflict and a WAR, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs Themselves.
There was No Zionist “plan” or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of “ethnic cleansing”…
[…..]
Amazing article. extremely Informative. Many thanks!
Thanks for the comment.
Whether trying to reason with unreasonable people is pointless or not depends on your goal.
My replies to unreasonable people are intended for the reasonable people reading the thread.
Excellent statement of purpose, a purpose I highly appreciate.
Sources confirming that Arab leaders told Arabs to flee and reports related to the departure of the Arab refugees: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1501222/posts
Certainly, a great many fled out of fear of further massacres like that at Deir Yassin. Instilling fear in the population was one of the means by which the Zionist forces ethnically cleansed Palestine.
Pretty powerful.
This is why i refuse to pay income taxes to the USA fed gov.
<3
#Matthew622:
King James Bible
The light of the body is 'the eye': if therefore thine 'eye' be 'single', thy whole 'body' shall be 'full of light'.
http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-22.htm
(Bible is heavily-influenced, fairly-new, allegory, etc.) <3 :D
…..
368 Talking to the Pineal – Bill Donahue (SCHOOLS-YOU!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuxntX7Emzk
…..
542 Word Origins Israel & Pineal – Bill Donahue (SCHOOLS-YOU!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRqKfNNJqME
…..
*Peniel meaning | Peniel etymology
Discover the meanings of thousands of Biblical names in Abarim Publications' Biblical Name Vault*
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Peniel.html#.Vi0qpvmrShe
Peniel meaning
For a meaning of the name Peniel, NOBSE Study Bible Name List reads The Face Of God, and Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names and BDB Theological Dictionary both read Face Of God.
…..
*Pineal Gland referenced in the bible again and again and again…*
http://sitsshow.blogspot.com/2014/01/pineal-gland-referenced-in-bible-again.html
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel,[b] saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel,[c] and he was limping because of his hip.
Footnotes:
Genesis 32:28 Israel probably means he struggles with God.
Genesis 32:30 Peniel means face of God.
…..
Theist / Gnostic :D (You should check-up on claims from any sources and hopefully reach correct information.)
Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife
http://Near-Death.com
5 Things You Won't Believe Aren't In the Bible
http://www.cracked.com/article_18757_5-things-you-wont-believe-arent-in-bible.html
Genesis As Allegory
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/genesis-as-allegory/
Six Six Six
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/277/Q1/
The Secret of the Number 666
http://www.askelm.com/secrets/sec108.htm
The Science of 666
http://gnosticwarrior.com/science-of-666.html
Do Jews Believe in Hell?
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594422/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-Hell.htm
Do Jews Believe in Satan?
http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/jewishbeliefsatan.htm
LUCIFER (Φωσφόρος)
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10177-lucifer
Over One Hundred Texts From The Bible That Show that Babies are Born Innocent and Without Sin
http://www.gospeltruth.net/OS100bibleverses.htm
offTheLeftEye
https://www.youtube.com/user/offTheLeftEye
Spirit Science
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSpiritScience
10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions
http://listverse.com/2013/06/30/ten-influences-on-the-bible/
10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/
Actually, that's not in the Bible
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/living/bible-not-jesus/
Half of New Testament forged, Bible scholar says
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/13/half-of-new-testament-forged-bible-scholar-says/
Yeshua-Christ never formed a religion; after he debunked many ideas and put many Jews and others in their place. Many people whom read this book are twisted with ideas without understanding context. The Bibles (so many versions, in English alone there are too many versions) are a mixture of things. A non-canon made into a canon. Missing up to 50 or more books (including, but not limited to: the very important Enoch, which completes the non-literal, heavily influenced by Mesopotamia book of Genesis [beginning], and Yeshua, turning clay into animate objects). It is of heavy allegory. Translated from a dead-language through a handful of other languages while enlisting many footnotes. Fairly-new writings to Earth and of Homosapiens. It is heavily-influenced (mainly from Egypt). It contains some good handful of contradictions. Uses some old Science. Writings of Yeshua are 'round 80 years after his biological-death.
~~ #Bless <3 BernieSanders2016 <3 FeelTheBern ~~ :D
…..
*Fluoride destroys you!!!! :'(*
https://www.facebook.com/notes/seth-a-yellin/fluoride-heavilyreviewed-harvard-healthcare-etc/1041785455866126
#Bible #Sunday #Jesus #Yeshua #Love #Worship #Religion #Religions #Faith #God #Conservative #Liberal #Obama #Oprah #America #MiddleEast #Jewish #Christian #Muslim #Hindu #Buddhist #Torah #NewTestament #Quran #Koran #Israel #Science #Metaphysics
**My posts of this here on FB (also many posts on G+):
https://www.facebook.com/seth.a.yellin/posts/982691655106246?pnref=story
https://www.facebook.com/groups/565913583513247/permalink/742650045839599/
Worldwide alert: the
real Muslim mission.
Israel has no choice but
to continue to fight for its survival. Thus, it is time for a Clarion Call
unifying all Israelis on a national scale, as well as all Jews worldwide.
I have long stated the real Arab Muslim mission in Israel is NOT about
alleged “occupied” land. Rather, the real Arab Muslim mission is the
extermination of Israel as a nation; the
extermination of Judaism as a religion; and the genocide of Israelis and their
culture. The reason for such an Arab Muslim mission has been repeatedly stated
by their leaders: their belief they “have the
right to kill all non believers”.
Posit the following, what if there was no “Holy Land” as part of
modern day Israel? Would the Arab
Muslims still demand land which they have no legal right to claim? Would they
still use terroristic tactics to kill innocent Israeli Jews wishing for a
peaceful co-existence? The irrefutable answer, as proven by their unfounded
rhetoric and actions is an emphatic YES. The reality is, the Arab Muslims use
of “contested land rights” is a thinly disguised façade to hide their true
mission: the genocide of Jews and extermination of Israel at any cost.
History proves the Arab countries terrorized and expelled over a million Jewish
families and their children. In so doing the Arab countries confiscated all
Jewish assets, businesses, homes and real estate totaling over 120,000 sq. km.
or 75,000 sq. miles, (which is 6 times the size of Israel), and valued in the
trillions of dollars. The reason they were expelled, hatred and greed. Those
expelled Jewish families were resettled in Israel and account for
over half the population of Israel today.
Those in power in the Arab-Palestinian leadership have rejected again and again
any and all attempts to recognize Israel’s right to exist.
Although sometimes occupied, there has been a Jewish Nation in the land of Israel for the past 4000
years. In fact, the Jews are the ONLY surviving indigenous people to Israel. Yet, even though
history proves there has never been an Arab-Palestinian Nation, the Arab
Muslims falsely claim they have a right to Israel. Said false claim
exposes the true mission of the Arab Muslims: extermination of Israel and the genocide
of Jews.
An examination of what Arab Muslims teach their children further exposes their
true mission. They continue to teach their children to hate, enslave, terrorize
and kill Jews, and all non-believers by any means possible. Ironically, the
world idly sits by allowing such hatred and violence to exist and expand
thinking it is only an Israeli problem (Déjà vu Hitler and Nazism).
The Muslim mission in the world is not only Israel but the rest of
the world, and all “infidel non-believers”. Though there are constant instances
of terroristic acts throughout the world which support the above statement, we
need not consider any other than September 11,
2001. On 9/11 Arab Muslim terrorists killed close to 3,000 innocent
people, including children in America. It is time for
the world to accept the fact the Arab Muslim mission of worldwide genocide of
ALL non-Muslims, and even some Muslims, will continue until education and
humanity replaces such hatred, or eliminates it altogether.
History proves Arab Muslims have killed over 500 million people since its
inception 1500 years ago. Moreover, the number of deaths by Arab Muslims
continues to grow every day. They have colonized the Middle East over the years.
Now they are slowly but surely taking over Europe. Rest assured if
we are not careful to protect ourselves, they will attempt to take over the United States and all other
countries. Then we the non-believers and our children will be forced to kneel
before a sword wielding Arab Muslim, having committed no other crime than
having a different religious belief.
It is time for the world to wake up and face stark reality: wherever there are
Arab Muslims there is hatred fueled conflict and terrorism in an ongoing
mission of genocide.
I hope Israel understands it
cannot concede to any of the Arab Muslim demands, or give up any more land. To
do so will only weaken Israel, making it more
vulnerable and endangering the safety and security of its citizens. Israel must retract all
previous concessions since the Arab Muslims have not abided by any of the
agreements. It is time to expose the real mission of the Arab Muslims:
worldwide genocide.
YJ Draiman
Text of Law drafted by Political Committee of Arab League
Beginning with November 28, 1947, all Jewish citizens of (Name of Arab Country) will be considered as members of the Jewish minority State of Palestine and will have to register with the authorities of the region wherein they reside, giving their names, the exact number of members in their families, their addresses, the names of their banks and the amounts of their deposits in these banks. This formality is to be accomplished within seven days.
Beginning with (November 28, 1947), bank accounts of Jews will be frozen. These funds will be utilized in part or in full to finance the movement of resistance to Zionist ambitions in Palestine.
Beginning with (November 28, 1947), only Jews who are subjects of foreign countries will be considered as “neutrals”. These will be compelled either to return to their countries, with a minimum of delay, or be considered as Arabs and obliged to accept active service with the Arab army.
Jews who accept active service in Arab armies or place themselves at the disposal of those armies, will be considered as “Arabs”.
Every Jew whose activities reveal that he is an active Zionist will be considered as a political prisoner and will be interned in places specifically designated for that purpose by police authorities or by the Government. His financial resources, instead of being frozen, will be confiscated.
Any Jew who will be able to prove that his activities are anti-Zionist will be free to act as he likes, provided that he declares his readiness to join the Arab armies.
The foregoing (para.6) does not mean that those Jews will not be submitted to paragraphs 1 and 2 of this law.
It is time to balance and remedy the tragedies of the Jews and the Arab-Palestinians and stop the hostilities.
YJ Draiman
The Temple Mount in Jerusalem is
Jewish territory for over two millennium and has been since prior
to the building of the two Jewish temples. It is a historical fact that King
David of Israel paid the Jebusites money to purchase
that property, in order to avoid conflict. Israel, after liberating Jerusalem and Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism in 1967, Israel graciously permitted the Arabs to continue
to pray at Temple Mount.
The time has come
to terminate said arrangement. Jewish worshippers have suffered years of abuse
by Arabs committing unwarranted acts of violence on a consistent basis. Israel has the right, duty and obligation to
revoke the unappreciated privilege formally granted. It is the Arabs who
are defiling The Jewish “Holy of Holies”.
It is time for Israel to take back Jewish its sacred ground, which
is the holiest site in Judaism, once and for all.
I am sure Arabs
would not permit anyone in the world to build and control the holy Site in Mecca. Let the Arabs have Mecca, and the Judeo-Christian people
have Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.
Supreme Muslim Council: Temple Mount is Jewish
The widely-disseminated Arab claim that the Temple Mount isn’t Jewish has been debunked – by the Supreme Muslim Council
(Waqf), in a 1925 pamphlets.
The widely-disseminated Arab Muslim position that the Temple Mount is not Jewish has been debunked – by the Supreme Muslim Council
(Waqf) of Jerusalem, in a Temple Mount guide published in 1925.
Waqf guidebook, 1925 cover
The Temple Institute.
http://www.raptureforums.com/IsraelMiddleEast/guide.pdf
Treaty of Peace Between The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
And The State of Israel October 26, 1994.
Status Quo – Jews and non-Jews are permitted to pray on Temple Mount – This is confirmed by Israel’s Supreme Court.
YJ Draiman
East Jerusalem under international law is occupied Palestinian territory.
A recommendation is not law. Disinformation and deception by the Arabs is common.
I didn’t say anything about any recommendation. I stated the fact that East Jerusalem under international law is occupied Palestinian territory.
Show me the international law.
The UN and the ICJ are only advisory.
most of the international legal gurus agree with my statement.
YJ Draiman
The principle that it is inadmissible to acquire territory by war is customary international law and codified in such international treaties as the Geneva Conventions and UN Charter, both of which Israel is party to.
There isn’t a country on the planet that doesn’t recognize East Jerusalem as occupied territory. The only country that disputes this is Israel itself, and the only “international legal gurus” that agree with the Israeli government position are rabid Zionists who are completely ignorant of what international law actually says, much less what it actually means.
You can learn about it in my forthcoming book, Obstacle to Peace.
I think you are wrong. It does not apply to Israel. International law and history. Greater Israel belongs to the Jewish people. Israel has the right and obligation to liberate its own territory.
The Temple Mount in Jerusalem is
Jewish territory for over two millennium and has been since prior
to the building of the two Jewish temples. It is a historical fact that King
David of Israel paid the Jebusites money to purchase
that property, in order to avoid conflict. Israel, after liberating Jerusalem and Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism in 1967, Israel graciously permitted the Arabs to continue
to pray at Temple Mount.
The time has come
to terminate said arrangement. Jewish worshippers have suffered years of abuse
by Arabs committing unwarranted acts of violence on a consistent basis. Israel has the right, duty and obligation to
revoke the unappreciated privilege formally granted. It is the Arabs who
are defiling The Jewish “Holy of Holies”.
It is time for Israel to take back Jewish its sacred ground, which
is the holiest site in Judaism, once and for all.
I am sure Arabs
would not permit anyone in the world to build and control the holy Site in Mecca. Let the Arabs have Mecca, and the Judeo-Christian people
have Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.
Supreme Muslim
Council: Temple Mount is Jewish
The
widely-disseminated Arab claim that the Temple Mount isn’t Jewish has
been debunked – by the Supreme Muslim Council (Waqf), in a 1925 pamphlets.
The
widely-disseminated Arab Muslim position that the Temple Mount is not Jewish has
been debunked – by the Supreme Muslim Council (Waqf) of Jerusalem, in a Temple Mount guide published
in 1925.
Waqf guidebook,
1925 cover
The Temple
Institute.
http://www.raptureforums.com/IsraelMiddleEast/guide.pdf
It isn’t a matter of opinion. It’s a completely uncontroversial point of fact under international law that East Jerusalem, along with all of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, is occupied Palestinian territory.
THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS AND THE LEGALITY OF THE SETTLEMENTS – Julius Stone PHD
THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS AND THE LEGALITY OF THE SETTLEMENTS
It is often claimed that settlement by Jews in the administered territories is in breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Professor Stone was the author of the treatise Legal Controls of International Conflict, which included an extensive commentary on the Geneva Conventions. Here he discusses their applicability in the Territories.
Perhaps the central current criticism against the government of Israel in relation to its administration of the territories occupied after the 1967 War concerns its alleged infractions of the final paragraph (6) of Article 49, of the Fourth Geneva Convention
Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of August 12, 1949.
The preceding paragraphs deal with deportation or transfer of a population out of the occupied territory. The final paragraph (6) reads as follows. “The occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into territory it occupies.”
It has been shown that there are solid grounds in international law for denying any sovereign title to Jordan in the West Bank, and therefore any rights as reversioner state under the law of belligerent occupation
[Note: By the Peace Treaty of 1994 Jordan relinquished any claim to such sovereignty, and the argument which follows therefore applies a fortiori.]
Not only does Jordan lack any legal title to the territories concerned, but the Convention itself does not by its terms apply to these territories. For, under Article 2, the Convention applies to cases of occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, by another such Party. Insofar as the West Bank at present held by Israel does not belong to any other State, the Convention would not seem to apply to it at all. This is a technical, though rather decisive, legal point.
It is also important to observe, however, that even if that point is set aside, the claim that Article 49 of the convention forbids the settlement of Jews in the West Bank is difficult to sustain.
It is clear that in the drafting history, Article 49 as a whole was directed against the heinous practice of the Nazi regime during the Nazi occupation of Europe in World War II, of forcibly transporting populations of which it wished to rid itself, into or out
of occupied territories for the purpose of liquidating them with minimum disturbance of its metropolitan territory, or to provide slave labor or for other inhumane purposes. The genocidal objectives, of which Article 49 was concerned to prevent future repetitions against other peoples, were in part conceived by the Nazi authorities as a means of ridding their Nazi occupant’s metropolitan territory of Jews – of making it, in Nazi terms, judenrein. Such practices were, of course, prominent among the offences tried by war crimes tribunals after World War II.
If and insofar, therefore, as Israel’s position in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) is merely that of an occupying power, Article 49 would forbid deportation or transfer of its own population onto the West Bank whenever this action has consequence of serving as a means of either
(1) Impairment of the economic situation or racial integrity of
the native population of the occupied territory; or
(2) Inhuman treatment of its own population.
Impairment of Racial Integrity of the Native Population of the Occupied Territory
The prominence of the question of legality of Jewish settlements on the West Bank reflects the tension of the peace process, rather than the magnitude of any demographic movement. Despite vociferous political warfare pronouncements on both sides, it seems clear, therefore, that no serious dilution (much less extinction) of the separate racial existence of the native population has either taken place or is in prospect. Nor do well-known facts of dramatic improvement in the economic situation of the inhabitants since 1967 permit any suggestion that the situation has been worsened or impaired.
Inhuman treatment of its own population
On that issue, the terms of Article 49(6) however they are interpreted, are submitted to be totally irrelevant. To render them relevant, we would have to say that the effect of Article 49(6) is to impose an obligation on the state of Israel to ensure (by force if
necessary) that these areas, despite their millennial association with Jewish life, shall be forever judenrein. Irony would thus be pushed to the absurdity of claiming that Article 49(6) designed to prevent repetition of Nazi-type genocidal policies of rendering Nazi metropolitan territories judenrein, has now come to mean that Judea and Samaria the West Bank must be made judenrein and must be so maintained, if necessary by the use of force by the government of Israel against its own inhabitants.
Please make your own arguments, and if you wish to cite a source, just share a summary of the key point and the link.
The only valid interpretation of international is that of the parties to the body of treaties of which it is comprised.
And there isn’t a single country on the planet other than Israel that interprets the Fourth Geneva Convention as not applying to Israeli settlers in the occupied Palestinian territory.
Again, it is a completely uncontroversial point of fact under international law that the settlements are a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
I have a book I am writing about Israel and the Arab-Israeli Conflict. It should be released sometimes in the first quarter of 2016. You can read it, when it comes out. It is based on facts, not conjecture and dis-information, with citations and international legal confirmation.
YJ Draiman
I also have a forthcoming book on the conflict, titled Obstacle to Peace: The US Role in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. You will also want to read it.
In it, I discuss the fact that East Jerusalem is under international law “occupied Palestinian territory” (quoting the International Court of Justice).
Occupied by Palestinians.
Mr. Hammond,
While I agree with many of your points, sources would be nice
What would you like a source for?
What is not myth is that Israel never existed prior to 1948 and let’us return to that history and the myth will cease
“Palestine” is a made up, Roman term for the region. Oddly enough, no “Palestine” existed under 20 years under Egyptian or Jordanian rule, or a few hundred years of Ottoman rule.
I’m curious what your point is about the origin of the word “Palestine” and what you mean by saying Palestine didn’t exist under Ottoman rule.
It’s a good counter to the “Israel never existed prior to 1948” baloney.
You didn’t explain what your point is, and Israel did in fact come into existence in 1948.
The modern state of Israel, sure. “Israel” itself existed for about 800 years or so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah
My point is, “Palestine” never has existed, and given their current behavior, probably never will. It’s a political, historical, and demographic non-entity.
Pakistan and India didn’t exist prior to 1948, either. Are they somehow less legitimate?
There was once a Kingdom called “Israel” there, so therefore…? Palestinians today have no right to self-determination? What is your argument, exactly?
Also, you keep saying Palestine never has existed. Odd that the vast majority of the world’s governments today recognize its existence, or that the map on which the armistice lines were drawn in green ink following the 1948 war was labelled “Palestine”, etc.
And this question about Pakistan and India, how do you interpret anything I’ve said as suggesting that since they didn’t exist prior to 1948, therefore they are “less legitimate” (whatever that means)?
You aren’t making any sense.
The green line was never meant to be a border, and was signed by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. Oddly enough, those territories were kept by Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Apparently, between 1948 and 1967, they weren’t too interested, either, in making an independent Palestinian Arab state.
From the “Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949”, Article V:
“The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.”
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/arm01.asp
Of course, that was in the hopes that Israel would cease to be.
Back to the original point, Dr.Ben Kihrat’s claim, “What is not myth is that Israel never existed prior to 1948 and let’us return to that history and the myth will cease.”, one can only wonder what it means. Return territory to Egypt and Jordan? Return to the Ottoman Empire? The Mongol Empire? The Ayyubid Caliphate?
I certainly do believe Palestinians have the right to self determination (as those 20% of Israeli citizens who are Arab do), and hope they get their own state, provided they can live in peace.
I bring up India and Pakistan to point out a similar post-colonial collapse with a large displaced population on both sides, the difference being, you don’t have Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus living in UN camps over half a century later.
“Israel never existed prior to 1948”
Funny….. It existed 2000 years ago, up until the Jewish Diaspora and the Arab Conquests in the 7th and 8th century.
Want to fix the UN refugee “camp” problem for the Palestinians? Close them. They are now just part of the cities. Either those countries absorb them or send them to the Palestinian territories.
Palestinians (Hamas, Palestine Islamic Jihad, Arab Liberation Army, Etc.) Terrorist Attacks Against Israel Citizens (Jews):
The Bus #405 Suicide Attack was a Palestinian Muslim, al-Hadi Ghaneim who hijacked the No. 405 Egged bus traveling from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and ran it off the edge of a cliff, killing 16 people and injuring 17.
The Mehola Junction Bombing were Palestinian Muslims
The Beit El Car Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Afula Bus Suicide Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Hadera Bus Station Suicide Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Dizengoff Street Bus Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Netzarim Junction Bicycle Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Jerusalem Binyanei Hauma Suicide Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Beit Lid Massacre were Palestinian Muslims
The Kfar Darom Bus [Suicide] Attack was a Palestinian Muslim
The Ramat Gan Bus #20 [Suicide] Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Ramat Eshkol Bus [Suicide] Bombing was a female Palestinian Muslim
The Ashkelon Bus Station Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The First Jerusalem Bus #18 Suicide Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Second Jerusalem Bus #18 Suicide Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Dizengoff Center Suicide Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Palestinian Muslim
The Café Apropo Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Palestinian Muslim
The 1st Mahane Yehuda Market Attack in Jerusalem was a Palestinian Muslim
The Ben Yehuda Street Bombing in Jerusalem were Palestinian Muslims
The 1st Kfar Darom Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Jerusalem Double Suicide Bombers in 1998 were Palestinian Muslims
The Egged Bus #960 Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Haifa Central Bus Station Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Gaza Bombing in 2000 was a Palestinian Muslim
The 2nd Mahane Yehuda Market Attack was a Palestinian Muslim
The 2nd Kfar Darom Bombing in Gaza Strip was a Palestinian Muslim
The Hadera Main Street Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Mehola Bombing in Northern Jordan Valley was a Palestinian Muslim
The Netanya Centre [Car] Bombing were Palestinian Muslims
The Tayibe Bridge Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Beit Yisrael Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Mei Ami Junction Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Netanya [Suicide] Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Talpiot Industrial Zone Bombing were Palestinian Muslims
The Egged Bus #6 [Suicide] Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Mifgash Shalom Attack was a Muslim
The Kfar Saba [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Or Yehuda Bombing were Muslims
The Nablus School Bus Bombing was a Muslim
The HaSharon Mall Suicide Bombing in Netanya, Israel was a Muslim
The Hadera Mall Bombing was a Muslim
The Hadera Bus Station Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Jerusalem Center Bombing were Muslims
The Jaffa Road Bombing was a Muslim
The Netanya School Bombing were Muslims
The Dolphinarium Discotheque Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Dugit Bombing were Muslims
The Yehud Suburb Bombing in Tel Aviv were Muslims
The Kissufim [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Binyamina Train Station Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Moshav Beka’ot Bombing was a Muslim
The Sbarro Restaurant Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Wall-Street Restaurant [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Russian Compound Bombing was a Muslim
The Jerusalem Car Bombings were Muslims
The Hanevi’im Street [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Nahariya Train Station Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Beit Lid Junction Bombing were Muslims
The Talpiot Neighborhood Bombing were Muslims
The 1st Erez Crossing Attack was a Muslim
The Kibbutz Shluhot [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The 2nd Erez Crossing [Suicide] Attack was a Muslim
The 1st Egged Bus #823 [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Ben Yehuda Street [Two Suicide] Bombings were Muslims
The Haifa Bus #16 Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Hilton Mamilla Bombing was a Muslim
The Check Post Junction Bombing was a Muslim
The Neve Dekalim [Two Suicide] Bombings near Gaza Strip were Muslims
The Tel Aviv Outdoor Mall [Double Suicide] Bombings were Muslims
The Jaffa Street [Female Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Tayibe [Bus] Bombing in Tel Aviv were Muslims
The Karnei Shomron Mall Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Maale Adumim – Jerusalem Road [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Efrat Supermarket [Suicide] Bombing Attack was a Muslim
The Maccabim (Checkpoint) [Female Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Yeshivat Beit Yisrael Massacre in 2002 was a Muslim
The 2nd Egged Bus #823 Bombing was a Muslim
The Ariel Hotel Lobby [Suicide] Bombing in Samaria was a Muslim
The Café Moment [Suicide] Bombing in Jerusalem was a Muslim
The Egged Bus #22 [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The 3rd Egged Bus #823 [Umm al-Fahm] Bombing was a Muslim
The King George Street [Suicide] Bombing in Jerusalem was a Muslim
The Passover [Seder] Massacre at the Park Hotel in Netanya, was a Musli
The Kiryat HaYovel Supermarket Bombing was a Muslim
The Allenby Street Coffee Shop Cafe Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Muslim
The Baqa al-Gharbiyah Bombing was a Muslim
The Matza Restaurant Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Efrat [Emergency] Medical Center was a Muslim
The Jerusalem Roadblock Bombing was a Muslim
The Yagur Junction [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The 3rd Mahane Yehuda Market Attack was a Muslim
The Rishon LeZion Bombing was a Muslim
The Netanya Market [Suicide] Bombing in 2002 was a Muslim
The Afula Road Bombing was a Muslim
The Rothschild Street Bombing was a Muslim
The Pi Glilot [LPG Depot] Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Muslim
The Studio 49 Disco Bombing was a Muslim
The Petah Tikva [Suicide] Mall Bombing was a Muslim
The Megiddo Junction [Suicide] Bus Bombing in Israel was a Muslim
The Herzliya Shawarma Restaurant [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Patt Junction Bus [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The French Hill Junction [Suicide] Massacre was a Muslim
The Immanuel Bus No.189 Attack were Muslims
The Neve Shaanan Street Bombing was a Muslim
The Nevi’im Street Bombing was a Muslim
The Hebrew University Massacre was a Muslim
The Meron Junction Bus #361 Attack was a Muslim
The 1st Umm al-Fahm [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The 2nd Umm al-Fahm [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Allenby Street Bus Bombing was a Muslim
The Geha Road Bombing was a Muslim
The Karkur Junction Suicide Bombings were Muslims
The Sonol Gas Station Bombing was a Muslim
The Kfar Saba Shopping Mall [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Kiryat Menachem Bus [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Tel-Aviv Central Bus Station Massacre were Muslims
The Haifa Bus #37 Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The London Cafe Bombing in Netanya was a Muslim
The Kfar Saba [Nordeau] Train Station [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Mike’s Place Suicide Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Muslim
The Gross Square [Suicide] Attack was a Muslim
The Jerusalem Bus #6 [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The 3rd Kfar Darom [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Afula Mall Bombing was a Muslim
The Netzarim Bus Bombing was a Muslim
The Davidka Square Bus Bombing was a Muslim
The Sdei Trumot Bombing was a Muslim
The Kfar Yavetz Bombing was a Muslim
The Ariel Bus Station Bombing was a Muslim
The Rosh HaAyin Bombing was a Muslim
The Shmuel HaNavi Bus Bombing was a Muslim
The Tzrifin Bus Stop Attack was a Muslim
The Café Hillel Bombing was a Muslim
The Maxim Restaurant Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The Tulkarem [Suicide] Bombing was a Muslim
The Beit Hanoun Junction Bombing was a Muslim
The Azzoun Bombing was a Muslim
The Geha Interchange Bus Stop Bombing was a Muslim
The 3rd Erez Crossing Attack was a Muslim
The Gaza Street Bus Bombing was a Muslim
The Liberty Bell Park Bus Bombing was a Muslim
The 4th Erez Crossing Attack were Muslims
The Ashdod Port [Double Suicide Bombings] Massacre were Muslims
The 5th Erez Crossing Attack was a Muslim
The Deir al-Balah Suicide Attack was a Muslim
The Beka’ot Checkpoint Bombing was a Muslim
The Tel Aviv Bus Stop Bombing was a Muslim
The Kalandia Checkpoint Attack was a Muslim
The Beersheba Bus Line 6 and 12 [Double Suicide] Bombings were Muslims
The Baka al-Sharkiyeh Checkpoint Attack was a Muslim
The Kalandia Gate Suicide Bombing was a Muslim
The French Hill Junction Bombing was a Muslim
The Sinai Peninsula Bombings [in Egypt] were Muslims
The Carmel Market Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Muslim
The Karni [Border] Crossing Attack were Muslims
The Morag Attack was a Palestinian Muslim
The Karni Border Crossing Attack was a Palestinian Muslim
The Gush Katif Checkpoint Attack was a Palestinian Muslim
The Stage Club [Suicide] Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Palestinian Muslim
The 1st HaSharon Mall Suicide Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Beersheba Central Bus Station Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Hadera Market Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The 2nd HaSharon Mall Suicide Bombing was a Palestinian Muslim
The Tulkarem Roadblock Bombing were Palestinian Muslims
The 1st Rosh Ha’ir [Shawarma] Restaurant Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Palestinian Muslim
The Kedumim Bombing [in the West Bank] was a Palestinian Muslim
The 2nd Rosh Ha’ir [Shawarma] Restaurant Bombing in Tel Aviv was a Palestinian Muslim
The Eilat Bakery [Suicide] Bombing in Israel was a Palestinian Muslim
The Dimona [Suicide] Bombings were Palestinian Muslims
The Kerem Shalom [3 Palestinian] Suicide Bombings were Muslims
This “article” is a fine example of how impossible it is to reason with arab-muslims.
I don’t believe anyone on here can have read the post all the way
through if they still ascertain any of the hasbara BS I am seeing
here….the Apartheid Israelis were and are Zionists they are not Jews.
They are a cult of White supremacists and their ideology is fascist.
They had an Apartheid in occupied Palestine from the absolute get go in 1948.
They are and have always been a deadly force both against unarmed
Palestinian Civilians trapped in the prison of Gaza and also those
trying to survive the Torment of their occupation in the West Bank.
Israel occupy a sliver of land in a sea of Arabs. Despite all this peaceful talk by Arabs, Jews were harassed throughout the time they were immigrating BACK to the Levant. I don’t buy this author’s pro-Arab assertions and viewpoint. Anti-Zionism is the just the new Anti-Semitism. Zionism is a freedom movement for Jews. If Islam is so peaceful, why does it not grant peace to other faiths?
If you think I’ve erred on any point of fact or logic in the article, you are welcome to point it out.
How can people from Europe, that are descendants of Europeans that converted to Judaism, “return” to someplace on another continent?
“Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European”
http://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict By Jews for Justice in the Middle East: http://victly.com/vhT0zW
Occupation 101 – An excellent documentary about the Palestine-Israeli conflict: http://victly.com/btWiNq
False from the start. “Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors. This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement, because the Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination.” Modern Zionism dates from the 1880s. Palestinian Arab consciousness did not begin until 1916. The rest whitewashes the murderous nature of that consciousness once it began to develop. Readers beware.
You assert the article is “False from the start”, yet don’t demonstrate any errors.
I would like to say: please try never to have any knee-jerk reactions about anything. If the world can become more of a place where people can see two different points of view, then there may be more chance of there being peace between Israel and Palestine because that might influence some people who are biased about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict not to be biased.
Can you please tell me, why do you use the expression “Jews and Arabs”. Jews are followers of a religion (not a nationality or ethnic group), and Arabs are a group with common language. Are there no Arab jews? And are there no Israeli Arabs, and Israeli muslims? I could understand it if you used jewish Palestinians, jewish Israelis, jewish zionists, and arab Palestinians, but not “Jews and Arabs”.
I fail to see how my use of the words “Jews” and “Arabs” in the article would lead to the conclusion that, e.g., there are no Israeli Arabs, or any other such confusions.
This is a mix of nationality and religion. In Palestine the population is Palestinians, most of them muslims, some christians, maybe some are jews and some are ateists. The Palestinian nation grew through the occupation of the Ottoman Empire and the British occupation and had inhabitans from all the monoteistic religions. Israel as a state was established after planned zionistic terror from the først years of th 1940th. The state is today more of a zionistic state than a jewish one, and the imported inhabitants are of a lot of nationalities, most Russians and north-Americans, and only in the name jews. The occupants in the resent occupied areas, the West Bank, have more in common with fascism/political zionism than with judaism.
There is nothing I wrote that would suggest the word “Jew” can’t refer to either an ethnic group or a religious group. There is simply nothing to your criticism.
“This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement, because the
Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination
and wanted Palestine for their own, to create a “Jewish State” in a
region where Arabs were the majority and owned most of the land.”
BWA-HA-HA-HA…
The arabs wanted ONE ARAB NATION ACROSS THE ENTIRE REGION, and NO JEWS NOR CHRISTIANS WOULD BE ALLOWED.
Are you denying the truth of that statement?
You are not only uninformed and a bigot against Jews, but you are an intellectual coward who deletes comments explaining your mistakes.
The only reason I ever delete comments or block users is if they violate the terms of use of this site, such as by engaging in substanceless personal attacks, such as this one. You’re now banned, though I’m leaving this comment up for the benefit of other readers and a warning to others not to violate the terms of use.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/about/terms-of-use/
IT IS BIBLICAL NOT POLITICAL SO YOU DONT HAVE REASON WITH MODERN DAY POLITICS
Well, if ever there was an example of the problem between Israel (note: Israel, not Jews) & their cousins the Arabs, this exchange is a classic. Without taking sides (though, yes, I am biased), all of these communicants have usede selective reportage/ examples/ history to back up their arguments. Some are accurate, but specific & therefore not explanatory of the whole. Some are simply self serving to their case, irrespective of relevance to the whole.
It is tragic that a people so p[oorly treated for so long should not have learnt that repression is no answer & a tragedy that a religion with such an illustrious history of enlightnment shouldd be reduced to such simplictic power mongering. A plague on both your houses.
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2011/07/media-bias-anyone-foreign-policy.html
All these sources explicitly describe “Mandatory” not as the owner, but the one who “engages to do some act without reward” and “to be when one undertakes, without recompense, to do some act for the other in respect to the thing bailed”.
Thus the lawful owners of all Palestine and the lawful owners of Mandate for Palestine are the Jewish people. Jewish ownership of Palestine is based NOT on some “Great Powers” imperialistic decision (as traitorous Israeli officials teach us), but on Arab-Jewish Treaty on Jewish Homeland in Palestine.
Jewish Mandate for Palestine is one of the essential international ratification’s of this ownership. The ratification’s was done by the official Arab delegation and by all the nations of the world including Turkey (former sovereign of this territory). Official Arab delegation ratified Arab-Jewish Treaty during Paris Peace Conference. Turkey ratified Arab-Jewish Treaty together with Jewish Mandate for Palestine via the Treaty of Sevres and Lausanne.
That’s quite a fantasy.
Attempting to fight so called ‘myths’ by attempting to legitimize real myths put out by Arafat, the PLO, and Hamas.
This article is the same old same old nonsense. The PLO and Arafat were expelled by Jordan (aka Transjordan aka eastern palestine) for trying to take over the Jordanian government. Tons of ‘palestinian’ arabs were expelled by Jordan. Is this ethnic cleansing? Guess not.
What about the farhud and the arabs support of the holocaust including the mufti helping hitler kill jews all over the place?
This article is trash.
Isaac, if you think there is any error in fact or logic in the article, you are welcome to point it out. I would merely observe how you’ve declined here to do so.
Even the author gives away his anti-semitic leanings easily by putting the jews in quotes, implying that we are imposters.
Every single genetic study to date has proven your mass berber or arab conversion theory to be a lie. The khazar myth is a lie.
Every study has shown that jews of north africa, israel, europe, and the rest of the middle east are more related to each other than to our host populations. We are hebrews.
Arabs are arabs, not hebrews. They come from arabia, and have 22 countries. These countries were acquired through arabian colonialism and expansionism. Berber lands are occupied by arabs, so are kurdish and assyrian lands. And so are jewish lands.
Arab nations started multiple wars, the palestinians cheered Bin Ladin in private (some were caught on tape), and historically supported nazism and the mufti by committing genocide against jews living ‘peacefully’ (lol) with them in ‘arab’ lands.
How does noting that Jews are descended from Judah imply that they are “imposters”? The fact that you feel it necessary to resort to such idiotic strawman argumentation is the thing here that reveals anti-Semitic leanings — on your part, against Arabs (who are also a Semitic people).
I have read most of the 648 comments. The reality is if we are to believe Benny Morris who is liberally quoted by ant-Israel moderator, both points are true. The Arabs called on native Arabs to leave as they were about to slaughter Jews in war and they did not want them to get harmed. It is also true that there was ethnic cleansing at the time of Israels founding. I am a Jew and I am certainly pro-Zionist as I define it. I support the existence of the Jewish state of Israel. That being said, we were not blameless as Jews. The one thing I would love @JeremyRHammond:disqus to respond to is what about the 100.000’s of Jewish refugees from Muslim countries. There was a massive amount of property confiscated as Jews were forced to leave Arab countries after Israels formation. Should they be compensated by the Arab countries who kicked them out as you are demanding Israel compensates Arab refugees. Also, does supporting Hitler and the Third Reich as was done by Arab leaders and especially the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem count for anything? They were allied with the losing side in WW2 and as such lost territory in the aftermath. That is what happens when you choose the wrong side of a major war. Both sides need to reflect on the fact that there is enough blame to go around. This whole argument where not one point is conceded by either side is fruitless.
I apply principles universally.
What did Arab peasants ethnically cleansed from their homes in order for the “Jewish state” to be established have to do with the Mufti, much less with Hitler? Nothing.
This author is so disingenuous and misleading that unpacking his article would require a whole book.
Suffice it to say that when Nasser threatened to throw the Jews into the sea in 1967, ordered UN peacekeepers out, and proceeded to the Israeli border, he meant it.
Two million Egyptians poured into the streets of Cairo screaming in utter ecstasy that the annihilation of the Jews had begun.
The genocidal effort of 1948 and 1967 by the Arabs against the Jews was no secret.
Jeremy Hammond is no historian. Jeremy Hammond is very much akin to a Holocaust denier, re-writing history to de-victimize the Jews and to prepare the way for another Holocaust, which would make him very happy indeed.
It suffices to point out how Israel refused the proposal to have UNEF restationed on its side of the border, how the CIA observed that Egyptian forces had taken up defensive positions in the Sinai, and how Israel’s own intelligence assessed that Nasser’s bellicose rhetoric was just that and that there was no threat of an Egyptian attack on Israel.
Fantasy aside, in actual fact, it was Arabs who ethnically cleansed Palestine of Jews, but the Zionists who ethnically cleansed 700,000 Arabs from their homes in order to establish their demographically “Jewish state”.
My people died. 6 million of us. And you want to keep complaining about what we had to do to defend ourselves from Arab genocidal warfare?
The Palestinians were not responsible for the European crimes against European Jews, and should not have been made to pay the penalty for it by being ethnically cleansed from their homeland in order for the Zionists to establish their demographically “Jewish state”.
I challenge you to point to any error in fact or logic in the article and would merely observe how you haven’t done so, relying instead completely on ad hominem argumentation.
I do not know if I have ever heard such lies in my life. The fact is there is a wealth of information that shows this guy is doing what Arabs do best, lying his head off, it is Al-Taqiyya, the right of Muslims to lie if it promotes their goals.
From what I have heard, Al-Taqiyya is commonly used by shiites against sunnis.
The palestinians are the descendent of the ancient israelites.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/09/17/the-palestinians-are-descendants-of-the-ancient-israelites/
Pakistan was also created from India to give land to muslims and they have now begun bitter enemies of the nation from which they got the land. So, I believe Palestine should come out of Israel and then bargain with Israel instead of Arab countries , who only wants to kill Palestinians and Jew to meet their selfish ends.
What a Nazi Socialist article written with full and total hatred of Jews while sympathizing with the Genocidal Islamic Arabs who took over Palestine through history by continuous genocides and holocausts of the Jews of Palestine who once were the overwhelming majority of Palestine.
Islam is only 1400 years old while Judaism is about 3000 years old. Who came first? – the Jews.
Only if we too would send kids over to the lands the Muslims stole from us and tell stab shoot and detonate along with the occasional rocket maybe we could get out ancestral lands of west Punjab back or at least the media that needs the drama before they cover the wrongs done to people.
Israel was established by ethnically cleansing most of the Arab population from their homes in Palestine.
No Israel was established after successfully defended itself from the combined invasion forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq.
False. By the time the neighboring Arab states managed to muster a military response, 300,000 Arabs had already been ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine.
Let’s do some fact-checking.
“In an enormous concession to Israel, Palestinians have long accepted the two-state solution. The elected representatives of the Palestinian people in Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) had since the 70s recognized the state of Israel and accepted the two-state solution to the conflict. Despite this, Western media continued through the 90s to report that the PLO rejected this solution and instead wanted to wipe Israel off the map.”
The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947 was accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, despite its perceived limitations. Arab leaders and governments rejected it and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division. It’s not the Palestinians who reject the Jewish state. It is the Arabs at large who do this. Iran and its puppet Hezbollah also want to destroy Israel.
You begin by saying “Let’s do some fact checking” and then quoting from my article as though you were identifying a factual error.
I would merely observe that you do not identify any factual error on my part, but instead refer to the absurdly inequitable UN partition plan, which was premised on the rejection of the right of the Arab population to self-determination.
Please see:
The Myth of the UN Creation of Israel
Yes you’re right. The UN just proposed a plan on how the territory of Mandatory Palestine is partitioned. They did not necessarily create Israel.
Also, I’m curious on why FPJ didn’t get enough attention. I have done something to let more people know about FPJ. Thank you.
Hint: It’s on Quora.
Forgive me for being stunned by this turnaround. It’s unusual in my experience, and I must confess I mistook you for just another troll. I am glad you rather turned out to be a reasonable individual. Thank you very much for sharing the article.
“troll” – someone who disagrees with my opinion.
“reasonable individual” – someone who agrees with my opinion.
Actually, this website’s terms of use define a troll as someone using the comments section without offering anything meaningful, relevant, or productive; who is uncivil or discourteous; or who engages in ad hominem attacks rather than substantive criticisms.
Kind of like what you just did right there. So thanks for proving for us all that you’re just a troll.
Thank you for taking the time to state facts and not some bullshit taken from one side of the story or from the Zionist media i really appreciated it.
This is the one of the worst pack of lies I have stumbled upon. Every one of the “anti-myths” is itself a myth. It’s true that historically and in the Bible the land of ancient Israel belonged to the Jewish people, not the Arabs. It is also true more powerful forces, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks, British and others at one time or another drove the Jews out and prevented them reestablishing themselves in adequate numbers to regain control of the land. It is also true that Arabs for the most part (not always) treated the Jews better than the Christian nations, but still the Jews were second-class citizens. It is also true the Palestinians were invented as a people in the 20th century and really are just another tribe of Arabs. It is also true that the Jewish people have the moral right to repossess their ancient land and (if necessary) remove the Arab squatters just like the Indians would have the moral right to dispossess the Americans whose ancestors dispossessed them, but the Indians simply lack that power.
False. Property rights belong to individuals, not groups, and the fact is that the Jews owned less than 7% of the land in Palestine by 1948, while Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district.
False. Property rights only exist if there is a state that recognizes it. Indians had property rights but there were not recognized by the European settlers who took land and established their own property rights.
Most of the land in Palestine in 1948 was not owned by Jews or Arabs. It was owned by the state (formerly Turkey and then Britain). Israel had every right to take control of that land and also the right to determine whether it would or would not recognize prior property rights. For the most part, Israel DID recognize legal title to the land under Turkish/British land, but it also had the right to claim abandoned property and impose eminent domain over occupied property, as well as to evict tenants (not land owners).
You say “False”, but it is a fact that Jews owned less than 7% of the land. It is also a fact that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district.
You argue that “Property rights only exist if there is a state that recognizes it.” That is false. For party A to not respect the property rights of party B does not mean party B does not have property rights. It just means part B’s rights are violated — as was the case with the establishment of Israel by means of ethnic cleansing and land theft.
You claim Israel had a “right” to “take control of that land”. False. This is a manifestation of the claim that Israel has a “right to exist”. That is nonsense. There is no such thing. States don’t have rights, individuals do. The proper framework for analysis is the right to self-determination. And that right was denied to the Arabs of Palestine in order for the “Jewish state” to come into existence — through ethnic cleansing and land theft.
What percentage did individual Arabs own? Not much more than 7%. The vast majority of the land was state land which Israel inherited. You don’t deny this.
There are no such things as individual property rights, only the rights given by the state. There is no universal right of “self-determination.” Every single tribe, clan, ethnic group does not have its own state. One of the largest groups, the Kurds, have no state and they have a much stronger claim than that “Palestinian Arabs.”
The reason Jews owned little land is that they were expelled or converted by force and then prohibited by the Byzantines, Arabs, Turks, etc. from regaining control of Palestine. I have no sympathy for claims by the descendants of the squatters that Palestine is now and forever will be Arab land. If there was no Arab state anywhere, then I might have some sympathy for the claims of the Palestinians but since are no different than the Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, etc., and since there are more than 20 Arab states already and only one Jewish state, nope..no sympathy.
Israel could justify expelling every Arab since there are no Jews allowed in Arab states, but instead Israel has made millions of Arabs citizens. But it would be suicidal to allow millions more to be citizens and since those millions are already living in other Arab nations or can easily move to one if they don’t like being a resident alien in the West Bank, it’s no big deal.
Jesus, the Muslims slaughter each other every day and all you can obsess about is the way the Jews treat Arabs who are hostile and violent. I wonder why you are so obsessed with the “Joooos?”
Jeffrey, please do not speak as though you knew what you were talking about. I really despise bullshitters.
Like I said, the Jewish community owned less than 7% of the land in Palestine. The Arabs owned considerably more than that. Like I said, Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district.
From my book Obstacle to Peace:
http://www.obstacletopeace.com
Here are the land ownership statistics from 1945 (Arab/Jewish land ownership in percentages): Safad: 68/18; Acre: 87/3; Tiberias: 51/38; Haifa: 42/35; Nazareth: 52/28; Beisan: 44/34; Jenin: 84/1, Tulkarm: 78/17; Nablus: 87/1; Jaffa: 47/39; Ramle: 77/14; Ramallah: 99/less than 1; Jerusalem: 84/2; Gaza: 75/4; Hebron: 96/less than 1; Beersheeba: 15/less than 1.
“Israel” did not “inherit” any land. Israel came into existence by means of ethnically cleansing most of the Arab population from their homes in Palestine.
The long-winded debate about how many Arabs fled of their own accord or at fear of war in 1948 is pointless. The fact is the Jewish Zionists had a claim to the land and Muslim Arab nationalists had a claim to the same land…and they were not compatible claim because the Arabs were not satisfied controlling 99% of the Middle East. They wanted the same 1% (or less) that the Jews wanted. War was inevitable and a population transfer (Jews out of Arab nations and Arabs out of Israel) was the best solution. While virtually all Jews left Arab nations over time, there was never a complete transfer of the Arabs and they remained. Also, the Arabs who left were not incorporated into their fellow Arabs states even though the Jews were incorporated into Israel. This has been the ongoing source of the conflict.
If the population transfer had been completed in 1948-1950, then there still might have been one more Arab-Israeli war with results similar to the 1967 war. That would have finished the job of removing Arabs from Palestine west of the Jordan. The Arab nations would have then abandoned war or very soon thereafter. No Arab nation has dared attack Israel since 1973, but the internal conflict wages on. Since there were no longer any Arabs in Israel agitating for a state, the internal conflict would be over.
The Palestinians are not like the Kurds who have a 1,000 years of history as a distinct people with a distinct language and culture. They are simply a group of Arabs who happen to live in one geographic region with no national identity.
Mr. Hammond wants to refight 1948 but it is too late. Since people like Hammond will attack Israel regardless of what it does, it is pointless to even consider worrying about making him angry.
False.
Thank you Jeremy for this article. Indeed, full of facts.
Jeremy, It’s 8 years since your wrote this article and your side is losing, badly. Many Arab nations are not even making a serious effort to advance the Palestinian Arab agenda anymore. They are fed up with the Palestinians stupidity and corruption and missed opportunities. I don’t know any intelligent person who thinks the Palestinians are capable of managing a state even if one was handed to them. Sadly, the Palestinian Arabs are not millions of Jeremy Hammonds or else there probably would be peace with Israel. However, if the Jews of Israel were millions of Jeremy Hammonds they would be dead or in exile again, because Jeremy “cattle car” mentality of the passive Jew has been rejected by the Israelis.
As for the “featured comment” that’s quite funny. There were probably many German Jews who could tell stories about how well they got along with the non-Jewish German neighbors, until those neighbors stood by (or worse) when the Jews were rounded up and gassed. Haidar’s false claim to 1,000 years of residence and his nostalgia for the “good Jews” doesn’t mean his people were waiting with glee for the Arab armies of 1947 to evict and/or exterminate the Jews.
You are deluding yourself. The Israeli occupation regime cannot sustain its criminal policies against the Palestinians. It is only a matter of time before this regime will fail in its aims of dispossessing and disenfranchising the Palestinians. They are not going to disappear, and they are not going to surrender their rights. Truth and justice will prevail.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. That goes for everyone in this world, no matter who they may be.
I’ll just leave this here. An Egyptian friend of mine showed me this video. He’s seen this conflict play out and all the back stories. Who had it first. Who killed who last before it became uncool to take over lands that way. “no takesies backsies!!”. Humans collectively have a short memory when it comes to history. This video highlights that fact. Im not taking any stance here on this forum. Im not sure how i feel about all of it, but I still feel a solution can be agreed on. I just wish people would get along. We need an alien invasion to unite us or something.
https://youtu.be/4pKMV6e5kEo
I was born into a family of Jewish parents. That does NOT make me a Jew, any more than being born of parents who are plumbers, mechanics, Atheists or any other product of CHOICE, makes our children exactly like us. Judaism is simply a Religion, not a race, not a bloodline, and NOT a distinct culture, or all Jews would be alike, and have common ancestors.
The fact that there are Swedish Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Russian Jews, and Jews born in South Carolina proves this fact, and disproves any idea of “Jewish Identity.” Is there a Scientologist Identity, that is inherited by their children.
No. Absurd nonsense.
My parents tried to force Judaism on their nine children. Yet we were all horrified by the racism (that Chosen People Myth)
bigotry and sense of Entitlement that infests Judaism. We were taught the vulgar, undemocratic creeds of Judaism……that we were ALWAYS superior to Goyim (a slanderous appellation) and that WE alone had the right to financial and social world dominance. That is not an exaggeration.
ANY people who deem themselves holier, worthier and more blessed than ANY other people…….are racist, bigoted misanthropes. Just like the Klan, Judaism is based in racial hatreds, both overt and benign.
The whitewashing of Hamas ends any credibility this document might have initially had.
If you are challenging the accuracy of the information presented, you are welcome to present an argument to support your case. I would merely observe that you have not done so.
“Although Hamas has for years accepted the reality of the state of Israel ” is false and not even supported by the cherry-picked quotes
It is true and supported by the quotes provided.
This is some of the most tendentious and specious writing on the Israel/Palestinian conflict I have ever had the dubious pleasure of reading. Don’t really know where to start.
– “UNSCOP contained no representatives from any Arab country and in the end issued a report that explicitly rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination.” UNSCOP contained no Arab representative because the Arabs BOYCOTTED UNSCOP. Not reporting that is a critical omission, and calls into question Hammond’s journalistic integrity, or lack thereof. And not even mentioning the Peel Commission and their recommendations in this entire “diatribe” is more evidence of specious reporting. UNSCOP was made up of 11 nations who were all considered “neutral” by the UN, why didn’t Hammond mention that? This group also included Iran. UNSCOP ultimately recommended the partition that became UNGAR 181, which most certainly included sovereignty for the Palestinians as it did for the Israelis.
On “Myth” number five, I was trying to verify some of those quotes. Doing web searches could not find any other instances of these quotes except for reprints of this article. But I could find nothing from credible source material. I finally found the article from which most of that section was plagiarized (Hammond offered no citations for this article). It comes from something called: “http://palestine-encyclopedia.com/EPP/Introduction1o2.htm” (hardly credible source material, and clearly Hammond did not research these quotes on his own). Besides Hammond’s article, don’t think I’ve read anything filled with more mendacious and propagandistic anti-Zionist rhetoric. The plagiarized section in question is entitled “THE ZIONIST WAR OF AGGRESSION IN 1967”. Not unlike the title of “Myth” number five. Interestingly Hammond didn’t include the quote from General Mattitiahu Peled. Wonder why that would be? I don’t really have time to check all of Hammond’s other work, though I suspect it’s just as shabby as what I’ve already uncovered.
You are confusing two different things. When I wrote, “UNSCOP contained no representatives from any Arab country”, I am referring to member states of the UN. When you say the Arabs boycotted UNSCOP, you are referring to the Arab leadership in Palestine.
As I elaborate elsewhere:
At the time, the U.N. consisted of 55 members, including Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria. Palestine by then remained the only one of the formerly Mandated Territories not to become an independent state. No representatives from any Arab nations, however, were included in UNSCOP.[1] Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia requested that “The termination of the Mandate over Palestine and the declaration of its independence” be placed on the agenda, but this motion was rejected. The Arab Higher Committee thus announced it would not collaborate, although individual Arab states did agree to meet with representatives from UNSCOP.[2]
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/04/13/the-u-n-partition-plan-and-arab-catastrophe/
You’ll have to actually produce an argument, as opposed to simply implying that by not discussing the Peel Commission, I was somehow being dishonest.
I discuss the Peel Commission and its significance in detail here:
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/11/02/what-was-the-balfour-declaration-of-1917-and-why-is-it-significant/
So, like I said, UNSCOP included no representatives from any Arab state.
I point out that UNSCOP came up with the proposal endorsed by the UN General Assembly in Resolution 181 in the article, and I explain why your belief about that resolution expressed here is wrong, also, in the above article; i.e., the partition plan was premised upon the explicit rejection of the right of the Arab population to self-determination.
I have never seen the source you provide here before. If something was plagiarized, it was that source plagiarizing me, not vice versa, although I note you provide no evidence to support your charge of plagiarization. The fact that article also includes quotes from Israeli leaders that I’ve used in this article is, of course, not evidence of plagiarism.
Your question is premised upon the your false charge of plagiarism.
So, in sum, you have failed to identify even a single factual or logical error in my above article.
“So, in sum, you have failed to identify even a single factual or logical error in my above article.”
Your “errors” are those of omission not commission.
For instance, when discussing property ownership you neglect to report that the most of the property was owned by absentee Arab landowners. And in bringing that up, doubtful you would have mentioned that these same landowners would have been more than happy to sell their property to Jews in the Yishuv who were paying high property premiums had there not been laws passed that prohibited selling land to Jews.
You dismiss out of hand the bellicosity of Nasser’s threats leading up the the start of the ’67 war, but fail to enunciate what exactly those threats were and the actual rhetoric behind them. Yet you go to pains to locate quotes of the Israeli leadership on the threat horizon they faced in the lead-up to hostilities. You dismiss his actions in the Sinai and the Straits of Hormuz as if they were not considered casus belli by some or at least signs of aggression by others. Yes, Israel fired the first shot but it is difficult to ignore the war that Nasser was promising and the ensuing destruction being contemplated. The Jews do not have the luxury of ignoring existential threats. Nasser should have known that as should you.
I am glad you discussed Peel in another article. Because any discussion of Peel serves to inform that Arab leadership was against any partition arrangement with the Jews, and it renders irrelevant any argument against 181 based upon the inequity of land apportionment.
“When I wrote, “UNSCOP contained no representatives from any Arab country”, I am referring to member states of the UN. When you say the Arabs boycotted UNSCOP, you are referring to the Arab leadership in Palestine.”
No, I was referring to the Arab member states. You failed to inform your readers that UNSCOP was intentionally assembled from neutral UN member states. That was in important piece of information. The implication was that they were excluded. That was clearly not the case. It was also an important piece of information that member Arabs states had specifically boycotted UNSCOP. That was omitted as well.
In fact UNSCOP was attempting to engage with the with the Arab member nations only to be rebuffed. To wit:
“I have today presented the said letter to the Arab Higher Committee for consideration, and hereby inform you of its decision: “The Arab Higher Committee, after discussing the renewed invitation of the Chairman of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine for the full co-operation of the Arab Higher Committee, finds no reason for reversing its previous decision submitted to the Secretary-General of the United Nations on 13 June 1947.”
(Signed) J. HUSSEINI
Vice-Chairman,
Arab Higher Committee
source: https://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/FB6DD3F0E9535815852572DD006CC607
An overriding point here is that the arc of intransigence on the part of the Arab states (actually beginning with Peel, and probably before that) presaged an obstinance that played out in the vote on 181 and 194 that would bedevil them into the future.
“the partition plan was premised upon the explicit rejection of the right of the Arab population to self-determination.”
Do you have any supporting documentation for this statement? It would appear to be a stunning misstatement of the mandate and purpose of 181. Clearly you are aware of the text of UNGAR 181, which not only contemplates an Arab State, but specifically defines its borders and terms for its independence. To wit: “Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in Part III of this Plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in Parts II and III below.”
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/res181.asp
” have never seen the source you provide here before.”
I will take you at your word and pending a fact check on each of the quotes, I will rescind the charge of plagiarism. As I mentioned above, I attempted to fact-check the quotes and since no citations were provided I had to resort to web searches. I only checked the first few quotes, and in each case searched the entire quote, and the results brought me to reprints of the article, until I found the previously cited document. Since you seem to indicate that each quote was individually sourced, please provide the sources of those quotes so I can verify and fact-check.
“Your question [about General Mattitiahu Peled’s quote] is premised upon the your false charge of plagiarism.”
Nope. It was premised upon General Peled being one who swung hard to the left, and dramatically changed his views on the conflict. It was also premised on the General being the father of Miko Peled, a vociferously strident anti-zionist and advocate of the dissolution of Israel.
What you mean is that most of the land that was purchased by Jews was owned by absentee landlords, which I discuss here:
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/11/02/what-was-the-balfour-declaration-of-1917-and-why-is-it-significant/
Incorrect. I merely recognize bellicose rhetoric for what it is and point out that Israel’s own intelligence assessed that Nasser had no interest in bloodshed.
Aren’t you going to mention how the Peel Commission proposed a “compulsory transfer” that the Zionists latched onto and which idea ultimately culminated in the ethnic cleansing of most of the Arab population from their homes by the Zionist forces?
Tsk, tsk. Such hypocrisy.
All you’re doing is using the word “neutral” as a euphemism for “non-Arab”.
I have already identified your error of confusing the Arab member states of the UN with the Arab Higher Committee. Yet there you go making the same error yet again. It’s like you’re unteachable.
How horrible of the Arabs to protest the denial of their right to self-determination!
Yes. The UNSCOP report:
“With regard to the principle of self-determination, although international recognition was extended to this principle at the end of the First World War and it was adhered to with regard to the other Arab territories, at the time of the creation of the ‘A’ Mandates, it was not applied to Palestine, obviously because of the intention to make possible the creation of the Jewish National Home there. Actually, it may well be said that the Jewish National Home and the sui generis Mandate for Palestine run counter to that principle.”
Discussed in greater detail here:
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
Naturally, since I pointed out how you are incapable of supporting it.
I am done with you. Begone, troll!
Do you have any REAL “facts” OTHER than the fiction your Hasbara school taught you? “Jews” DO have a land – in Polish and German ghettos as well as Russia. Why not just go back?
Some more, albeit detailed, hasbara fiction
THE JEWS LEGAL RIGHTS TO THE LAND OF PALESTINE FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA ARE ENSHRINED IN THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS RESOLUTION OF JULY 1922. ORIGINALLY HAVING BEEN GIVEN THE WHOLE OF PALESTINE, I.E. INCLUDING TRANSJORDAN, THE JEWS WERE THEN LET DOWN BY THE BRITISH WHO INSERTED ARTICLE 25 INTO THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS TREATY GIVING THE JEWS ONLY THE LAND FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA. tHE LEAGUE OF NATIONS TREATY HAS NEVER BEEN REVOKED AND STANDS FIRMLY AS INTERNATIONAL LAW TO THIS DAY. IT IS PARAMOUNT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE DECISIONS WITH REGARDS TO THE MANDATE AND THE TREATIES WERE NOT TAKEN ON A HOOF BUT INVOLVED LENGTHY DELIBERATIONS, OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS, AND TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THE THEN DEMOGRAPHY, I.E. THE FACT THAT THE ARABS WERE A MAJORITY IN THE LAND. nEVERTHELESS, BECAUSE THE ARABS RECEIVED AN AREA 100+ TIMES LARGER THAN THE JEWS (AS A RESULT OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE’S COLLAPSE) – THE DECISION WAS JUST, NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT THE ARAB CONQUERORS PILLAGED, KILLED AND USURPED VAST SWATHES OF LANDS IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN ASIA, IN NORTHERN AFRICA + – THEIR GREED AND SUPERIORITY-FEELINGS NEW NO BOUNDS. ISRAEL, FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA, IS A TINY COUNTRY. tHE DISPUTE IS A RELIGIOUS ONE PRIMARILY AS ISLAM WILL NEVER CEDE ANY PART OF LAND TO THOSE IT REGARDS AS INFIDELS, IE.E. JEWS AND CHRISTIANS PRIMARILY, BUT ALAWITES, BAHAIS AND MANY OTHERS AS WELL.
THERE WAS NEVER A COUNTRY CALLED PALESTINE – PALESTINE IS A GEOGRAPHIC REGION WHICH FOLLOWING THE BRUTAL EXPULSION (AND KILLINGS) OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS BY THE ROMAN CONQUERORS, BECAME A LAND COVETED BY CHRISTIANS, PAGANS AND EVENTUALLY MUSLIMS.
THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS OF THIS LAND, THE JEWS, WHO BUILT JERUSALEM AND SANCTIFIED IT FIRST, HAVE RETURNED AND THOSE WHO CRAVE JUSTICE OUGHT TO UNDERSTAND THAT JUSTICE HAS TO PREVAIL.
THE MUSLIM CONQUERORS USURPED THE LAND IN THE 7TH CENTURY THROUGH BRUTAL KILLINGS WE SEE TILL THIS DAY, THROUGH FORCED CONVERSIONS (CONVERT OR DIE), THROUGH GREED AND A SUPERSESSIONIST IDEOLOGY.
IF YOU BUY TO THEIR IDEOLOGY – YOU ARE GUILTY OF THEIR CRIMES AS WELL.
I WILL LEAVE YOU WITH AN ARABIC SAYING: ‘I AGAINST MY BROTHER, MY BROTHER AND I AGAINST OUR COUSIN, MY BROTHER AND I AND OUR COUSIN – AGAINST THE WORLD’. AND SUCH IS THEIR PSYCHE: CONSTANT OPPOSITION TO ‘THE OTHER’. A VILE AND REPUGNANT RELIGION WHICH PLAGIARISED THE GOOD, HUMANITARIAN BITS FROM THE JEWISH BIBLE (BUT THE COMMONERS WILL NOT KNOW THIS, FOR THEY HAVE NOT READ THE JEWISH BIBLE).
I just want to verify something Jeremy
Did the Arabs sell the land to the Jews before 1937 .. I mean the Arabs didn’t own the majority of land and the Jews bought it ?